Sunday, November 6, 2022

It all hinges on the Board Elections - A summary of recent events

Voting for candidates committed to change

We've been fairly quiet, despite so much going on and being so frustrating to watch. There is nothing more important happening in Sun City at this very moment than the RCSC election of board members.

The Sun City Advocates were formed knowing this day would come; that point in time when we elected a slate of candidates who would be willing to listen to member concerns or we wouldn't. Jean Totten, Steve Collins, and John Fast have all made it clear, the members' voices should be heard. If elected, the change from minority status to having majority control will be quickly apparent.

 

You must vote in this coming election. The choice is yours to make, but please make it based on facts, not promises by board members trying to remain in control.

 

Quick summaries of the issues as we see them


There's been a flood of events we want to cover quickly but thoroughly enough to help you understand what is going on. You can form your own opinions, but as we walk through the topics you will see just how insidious our challenges have become. The RCSC has become masters of putting their thumbs on the scale, all the while telling us "we are listening to the members." Are they really? Here's a short list:

 

Candidate Forums: There were two opportunities to ask candidates questions. Both were out of the ordinary and questions never before allowed were featured. They've never allowed questions to be asked about open issues before the board, they've simply ruled they were out of order. There's a reason for it, promising members they can deliver anything is tantamount to pandering for votes. Both were prominent as at least two candidates were willing to say, no matter what, they would deliver the Mountain View project and the pickleball courts at Lakeview next year. Insane, everything should hinge on the cost and the quality of what they will be asked to vote on. 

We know the Mountain View project is a hot-button item; we know that phase 1 is budgeted at 27 million dollars. We have all said, to wait to see what the bids come in at. If it comes in at 10%, 20%, or 30% over budget, that will make a difference that is too large to ignore. It's fiscally imprudent to say anything other than we need to see the costs. The pickleball court replacement is another one of those red herrings. The Advocates have always argued for two venues; what we have no interest in is accepting a sub-standard second set of courts. As always, our mantra has been; to do it right the first time. It still is.

 

The Ad Hoc Bylaws Rewrite Committee:

Another one of those topics we held our breath on waiting to see the outcome. Now that it is on the table and to be voted on, we could not be more disappointed. Most of you know, the committee was formed because for the first (and only time) since 2009, we reached a quorum at an annual membership meeting. We properly submitted our bylaw changes and had expected to vote on them. None of that happened. I won't relive the mess, suffice to say, the membership was treated like second-class citizens. 

The committee of 7 worked long, hard, and quickly. As mentioned above, we were more interested in them getting it right. They didn't come close. Of our 5 motions, there is virtually nothing intact. You can read it here on TOSC where Bill Pearson breaks it down point by point. The tragedy from it all is they had the audacity to try and tell us how good the changes were for the members. Now it looks like they want to shove it down our throat with a single reading where the members can comment. Tragic.

 

The 2022 Annual Membership Meeting:

Suffice it to say, there wasn't one; and many in attendance were angered by the fact. There were, with a handful of proxies, 560 plus in the room. Oddly enough, our quorum recommendation last year was 500, but of course, that wasn't part of their changes. This year was still 1250 and the Advocates made a decision not to chase proxies or try and drive the crowd. There was no point. Under both the old bylaws and the new, even with a quorum, anything we pass is meaningless. There are still impossible hoops to jump through. Many of us know what our Articles of Incorporation say and the power the membership is given, the board simply is terrified to allow the members the rights granted to them.

 

The Lot Assessment Increase:

Another one of those topics that is mind-boggling; is a proposed lot assessment increase. Since 2016 the RCSC has been averaging 1.3 million dollars per year in unspent rec fees. Their carry forward amounts have been reported and as we watched it grow to nearly 10 million dollars, the obvious question has been asked: "Why aren't you spending it on the members' needs?" You know, things like updating our 15 years behind the time technology? Security at our amenities and filling club's requests? There have been no answers. 

At the last budget and finance meeting, the general manager asked for a $29 increase (from $496 to $525). His argument was they need the money because of inflation. Admittedly, we have very reasonable yearly fees (unless of course, you are a single homeowner) and we haven't had an increase in fees for years. There was a great reason we haven't, they didn't need the money, and they weren't spending what we were sending them. Now they've decided they want more. How do we ensure they spend it on the membership rather than just putting it in the bank? 

The good news is the proposal was voted down. The bad news is they are squeezing one of the board members to change his vote. We'll see at the November Board of Director meeting if he caves to management's wishes.

 

The POSSE:

I can't even believe I am writing this, so I will keep it short and sweet. For 50 years (1972) the POSSE has had a wonderful working relationship with the RCSC. For a small yearly donation (voluntary on the part of the RCSC), the POSSE has checked RCSC properties. They are not hired security, they have been called, from the beginning, "the eyes and ears" of the community." Their job was never to confront the bad guys, their role was to when they saw a potential problem to call it in and have the Maricopa County Sheriff respond.

For 50 years it's been a seamless and harmonious relationship. The POSSE is well-loved and well-respected by the community. At the beginning of this year, the POSSE increased its coverage by working overnight shifts. It was a new feature and one that helped alleviate some of the problems in the area along Grand Ave. In March apparently, the general manager and the POSSE commander started talking about some issues, but talks stalled and at the October member/board exchange the dispute became public. At this point, there is no resolution and the POSSE has ceased all interactions with the RCSC and any events they hold. Tragic yet again.

 

Full Play Non-Resident Golf Passes:

Another one of those issues that cause most to give their head a shake. At the April board/member exchange meeting, 3 long-time RCSC members of the golfing community stated they have been unable to get tee times like they have in the past. Once exposed, the problem was quickly diagnosed; outside full-play pass sales had exploded. Going from 50 to 150 generated 12,000 rounds of outside play. Worse yet, it was cheap outside play; cheaper than what members paid. They also were guaranteed a golf car if they paid the $500 add-on. Then we found out they could override the lottery system by joining groups of 30 or more.

The RCSC's solution was two-fold. The board announced they had "solved" the outside golf challenges with the wave of their magic marker, while in truth, it only got worse. The management team went to work and proposed a $250 increase which didn't slow down sales at all. It's the best deal in all of Phoenix, at least for the non-residents who buy the pass, not so much for the 88% who don't golf or for the members who buy the surcharge pass or pay the full price per round.

 

You Must Vote:

There is so much more we could say, but this is already too long. The RCSC is terrified the members' voices will be restored and they will have to listen to them. They are doing things never done before, they are that desperate. Their fear is apparent in their actions.

Our only recourse is for members to vote. Not just each of you reading this, but by encouraging your friends and club members to do the same. Ask them to consider voting for John Fast, Jean Totten, and Steve Collins.

 

Bill Pearson, Advisory Panel Sun City Advocates

73 comments:

Anonymous said...

Bill when dose on line voting start?

Bill Pearson said...

Monday November 7, which should be tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

VOTING 411
Monday, November 7 at 8am:
RCSC Board of Directors Elections - Online voting begins via the RCSC Web Portal
https://sunazplay.totalegolf.com/Login/tabid/2952/Default.aspx?returnurl=%2f
Continues thru Election Day
Tuesday, December 13 at 4pm.
Absentee Ballots may be requested by calling 623-561-4600.

May want to attend and watch before you vote:

Monday, November 7, 2022 @ 9am
RCSC Member/Board Exchange
Sundial Auditorium
https://mailchi.mp/789888d24043/board-meeting-agenda-monday-7513142?e=6086093af7

Thursday, November 17, 2022 @ 9am Sundial auditorium
RCSC Board Meeting

View Candidate Introductions, Forums and RCSC meeting videos
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCdLy0Uy9sKWCJN

Anonymous said...

Oops! Trying those links above, again. Sorry about that.
Member/Board Exchange Announcement
https://mailchi.mp/f51a3e9513ff/board-meeting-agenda-monday-7513158?e=f18f779945

RCSC YouTube Channel
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCdLy0Uy9sKWCJNLz37tn5ug

Bill Pearson said...

If you get a chance, watch the video of the member/board exchange meeting from yesterday, Nov 7. Once you do, you will see exactly why we need a change in direction. Plus, you’l get to see Dave Weiland in action as he becomes the bell ringer from hell. I guess he was fine with him and 4 others making every decision regarding the bylaws, but took it as an affront to have to allow others to question the outcome.

Your actions were pathetic yesterday Dave.

Christine de Pizan said...

Bill, it would be nice if you spelled my name correctly. Aminor point but it also falls in the category of quoting me, I expect to be quoted accurately and completely and I am looking at you fraulein Princess.
As for my bell ringing, you may not be aware but he sent a two page memo to the committee which were addressed, now he is back with the same Hot 100 grievances. He seemed to have trouble grasping the fact on recalls that the Board was not part of the decision, rather it would be management. That reason being being between Bill Cook, Kevin McCurdy and the head of Human Resources I believe they could determine was not allowed because it violated one or more members of a protected class. Joe seemed to obtuse to the meaning of Protected Class. There comes a time when you can answer the same question so many times. I doubt Big Bird and The Count could have helped, hence my bell ringing. As a side note, Dale made it quite clear at the beginning of the meeting that if you stray into bloviating, if the bell is rung you must stop. Either Joe was deaf or believed the rules do not apply to him. I was not 5he Bell Ringer From Hell, he was the Clueless Person From Hell.

Note to Tom, regarding the business affairs of the Corporation, were the business affairs of the Corporation in 2022 the same as in 1975? That is why the language is intentionally vague, changing conditions, such as including but not limited to….. Maybe you should read my book sometimes, it’s probably available from the library.

Joe Brouch said...

Dave,
Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. I'm having trouble following your broken English, but I will try to respond. Regarding Recall petitions, I never stated I have a problem with protected classes. Please state time stamp in video when I said anything about that. That would be Article IV, Section 1 E. I asked (numerous times) who would be responsible for determining criteria - which you also included in IV,1,D, (again in broken English) "policy, rule or bylaw that is being challenged in clear language..." The long winded responses I got did not include a name or job title - which I think all reasonable people believe is a necessary component of a "WHO" question response. Hence a small part of my frustration. Your response above that you intend it to be Management Staff might have moved the conversation along. Too bad you didn't think to simply stand to be recognized and stated that. Might have been more civil than hissing at me. I was not deaf, heard the bell, and made a decision based on too many things to list here. I'll be happy to discuss with you - name the place and time and I'll buy the coffee. Have a wonderful Sun City day.

Bill Pearson said...

You are way more kind then i would be Joe. They never answered your specific question, they dodged it. The "protected class" crap is the proverbial red herring. No one would argue that, NO ONE. It's the paragraph above it that is the problem. The minute they stuck the recall in with the initiative and referendum clause they shot whatever they claimed they were trying to do in the head. Sorry Dave, clear and unambiguous language wins out over intent every time.

Looking at that section looks like someone just decided to add in recall. It certainly doesn't fit there if the intention is to let members request and receive recall petition number. As far as your name and spelling it right Dave, i simply no longer care. After yesterday's stunt i am uninterested in your feelings. Sorry, not.

We not still don't know if the bylaws needs one reading or two, or if they will waive the second reading and just shove it down our throats come November. As you well know Dave, at board meetings we get 3 minutes to make our case. You on the other hand had "100's of hours" to insure the members got nothing out of the membership meeting last December.

Let me repeat that Dave, NOTHING.

Christine de Pizan said...

Joe and Bill, I am looking at my copy of the bylaws and I believe you have an incorrect citation. There is no subsections under your citation, that there are no lettered subsections in Article IV, could you be referring to a different Article?

As for the fee increase, there was 3% inflation for the years 2016 - 2021 inclusive for a cumulative total 18% now add about 10% for this year for a cumulative total of 28%. I warned about an increase was necessary at the May budget and finance meeting. Again a motion passed introduced Norm Dixon was for an ad hoc committee to study this. Stunning.

Now since the budget did not pass, Bill Cook said at our most recent meeting that without a budget, none of the projects could be started and any PIF projects could not continue. Now there is a movement to use cash carry forward for this. Big problem, Bill said they would have to take $2mill to to balance the 2023 budget, add the $4.5mill being transfer to capital reserve which totals $6.5 mill. So if current cash carry forward is about $11mill, after those subtractions leaves about $4.5 mill to cover a $27mill budget. The monthly fees are not going to cover the difference. Unless management can pull off a bread and fishes miracle, trouble. Not included is late or uncollectable receivables (fees), the problem worsens. Facts are not biased.

As for single people having to pay per property, they should have read the agreements closer. I am not being callous because I am grandfathered, bought in 1998, didn’t live here until 2005, worked here until 2008 and was totally unaware of the change. I just paid my fees according to the bill.

Bill Pearson said...

Dave. It's late and i'm in no mood to debate/discuss this, but let me post the exact language Joe and i were both referencing: Art 9 Section 1 sub section D says the following: " A referendum or recall petition MUST SET FORTH THE EXISTING POLICY, RULE OR BYLAW THAT IS BEING CHALLENGED IN CLEAR LANGUAGE THAT WILL ALLOW THE CHALLENGE TO BE DETERMINED BY A "YES" OR "NO" VOTE. Any proposition will be subject to the requirements and limitations of the Corporate Documents.

I've capped the language on purpose. That was the point Joe was trying to make and Allan refused to address. Instead he was arguing about the importance of standard disclaimers over protected classes. Subsection A, B, C and E say one thing, D is explicit in stating a recall has to be for violating an existing policy, rule or bylaw.

As mentioned, last year there were at least 4 requests for a recall petition and that language was even less vague and they denied it every time. This new proposed language does nothing to fix it when reading it as printed.

Hope that helps.

Anonymous said...

Chameleon Dave,
“As for single people having to pay per property, they should have read the agreements closer.“

The mandatory annual assessment fee is documented and agreed to. What is not revealed is that a dual deeded residence receives two RCSC memberships for the SAME assessment fee. A two for one deal…buy one, get one FREE. The annual assessment payment must provide EQUAL benefit! As it is now, a “single” owner pays twice as much for their RCSC membership as an individual who is considered a part of.an owner couple. That’s discrimination!

Anonymous said...

WITH PREJUDICE.

Janet Curry said...

Dear Anonymous,
You are correct about the discrimination between a single owner and having two names on the deed regarding the annual fee. As a member of the Ad Hoc Bylaws Review Committee, I pointed out that we were not including "marital status" in the protected classes and it should be included along with "race, color, religion, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, age, physical or mental disability or veteran status". My suggestion was ignored by the three attorneys participating in that meeting. One committee member agreed with me because spouses cannot serve on the same committees. That was the end of the discussion. Another disappointment.

Janet Curry

Anonymous said...

Thank you for giving so many hours of your time and working so hard on this committee.

Janet Curry said...

You are welcome, Anonymous. I am glad I was able to serve the fine Members of RCSC. I feel that I can hold my head high in how I participated, conducted myself, and any expertise I was able to offer the committee.

Janet Curry

Tom Marone said...

So Dave, just what exactly are the "Affaires of the Corporation"? Until somebody actually defines what they are I will stick to my guns that preventing the Members to amend the Bylaw's is wrong. When a Member's proposed bylaw amendment encroaches on the responsibilities of the General Manager then I agree that it should perhaps be reviewed by the board, but that shouldn't prevent the Member's from being allowed to vote with definitive results.

And where can I find your book? Is it in the section on Fiction or over in the Kid's section with the comic books?

Joe Brouch said...

Dave - Sorry my mistake "IX" not "IV". You won't ever hear me say "Alex, I'll take Roman Numerals for $1000"

And besides never saying anything about protected classes, I also never said I was confused about fact that Board approval had been removed - another point the Directors felt compelled to bring up again and again while not answering my question.

Just to reiterate, the language in 9/1/D is choppy (Recall is not challenging a policy - it's challenging whether a Director is fit for office), open for interpretation (rule?)(clear?), and does not identify who will make the determination if a recall petition meets that criteria. You left the same door open that let in some of the flies of consternation last year.

Perhaps you could have: inserted protected classes into A, put language for wording requirement of Referendum (WITHOUT 'Recall' haphazardly inserted in there)(essentially moving D to B), and then concluded with current B and C. -OR- Even Director McAdam's amendment to remove word 'recall' and create it's own sentence would have been clearer/better.

And I also was looking for a straight answer that you provided no protection that the attorney will not be allowed to simply make things up as reasons for denial.

Offer for in-person discussion still stands.

Christine de Pizan said...

Tom, Black’s Law Dictionary. It’s in the smart people’s section under how did we get here from a legal standpoint. It’s next to the section titled Everything is Subject to Interpretation which is where Robert’s Rules of Order is located.

As for affairs of the corporation, it is an evolving subject.. Do we know what the Board will be dealing with in 2040, 2035 or 2030? One will be technology but in what form and how does it fit in with the RCSC or does it? If you have a crystal ball, white witch or some other manner of predicting the future, please enlighten me.

Janet, pleasure to serve with you. If you notice the members of a protected class are incorporated in the Federal Statutes under Chapter 42 USCA but unsure which section. If you care to sue for discrimination or any violation of civil rights it would be Section 1983. I don’t believe martial status is mentioned as that would include same sex marriage which is only legal as a result of the Supreme Court decision in the Obergfell decision. Of course that could be overturned easily as evidenced by Roe. As for the single person paying “double,” the recent lawsuit basically came down to that the RCSC can make its own rules. Stupid lawsuit doomed from the beginning.

Bill Pearson said...

I guess Dave decided to duck the question we both asked him Joe. It makes sense because we both already know the answer and he simply doesn't want to admit the attorney can just make shit up about why we didn't and still don't (under these new and unimproved bylaws) have the right to recall a board member.

I know they tried to pass that steaming load of crap off on folks as being fixed but the point is it doesn't change a thing. My best guess is regarding section D, someone added the recall piece in after the fact. The way it reads makes no sense, pretty much on par with the rest of the document.

Bill Pearson said...

Gotta laugh gang, the guy with every answer has no answer to what a specific bylaw says or means. Or more likely, he knows exactly what its says and means and is afraid to admit it?

Tom Marone S C Advocate said...

What do you expect from a guy who sat on the Ad Hoc Bylaw Committee and said "I don't give a damn about Robert's Rules of Order?" He apparently doesn't give a damn about the Bylaws or Articles of Incorporation either?

Bill Pearson said...

One can only speculate Tom, was Dave told to shut his pie hole before he sandbagged the "new and improved bylaws?" These guys, to a person when asked direct questions about changes ran the gamut of nonsense. We saw and heard it when Joe asked Allan about specific sections and the new language they wrote and be blathered on about sections Joe never questioned.

It's always the challenge when language says one thing and they claim it says something else.

Christine de Pizan said...

Tom, I made that statement because we had committee members who were familiar with Robert’s plus we had a certified parliamentarian. So pull your MAGA hat up from your ears and listen, I was chosen for my legal experience. Comprende esse? Are you a certified parliamentarian or have extensive legal experience? No , you are a one trick pony.

Bill I have not by silenced by anybody contrary to your opinion or any of the unwashed masses. Sorry my life interferes with your schedule and I really don’t give a shit. So for the third and last time I will teach you financial analysis via a handout on Thursday. I believe you, Tom and that angry Jean Totten can fill in the blanks. You can even use those dopey 990s you love so much. It’s part of that education slogan of the advocates which teach nothing.

Deus illud volte.

Bill Pearson said...

Given your "legal experience" that you were chosen for Dave, we don't you try answering the question you continue to duck? It's really not that hard to just answer the question honestly and openly. For real Dave, the truth will set you free.

Tom Marone S C Advocate said...

Never said I was a certified parlamentarian but are you now claiming you have a law degree? And don't bore me with what you use to do in your previous life. I don't really give a shit either!

Bill Pearson said...

Now that we know you haven't "run away" and that we know you haven't been told to stop posting, let's try once again to get a straight answer regarding the language posted here:"Art 9 Section 1 sub section D says the following: " A referendum or recall petition MUST SET FORTH THE EXISTING POLICY, RULE OR BYLAW THAT IS BEING CHALLENGED IN CLEAR LANGUAGE THAT WILL ALLOW THE CHALLENGE TO BE DETERMINED BY A "YES" OR "NO" VOTE. Any proposition will be subject to the requirements and limitations of the Corporate Documents.

Does this change the past practice and give members the right to ask for and receive a recall petition, or is it the old language repackaged? Hope that's clear enough.

Christine de Pizan said...

Yes

Bill Pearson said...

You answered yes Dave, but the language is clear, the only reason a recall petition will be granted is: "MUST SET FORTH THE EXISTING POLICY, RULE OR BYLAW THAT IS BEING CHALLENGED IN CLEAR LANGUAGE."

Are you telling me the clear and unambiguous language doesn't mean what it says? Explanation would be helpful. Thanks, Bill.

Janet Curry said...

Dear Dave,

Thank you for informing me that “marital status” is not a protected class in federal law or in Arizona statute. It is considered a protected class in Nebraska, so I just assumed it was everywhere. My mistake! Since I was involved in the recruitment, hiring, evaluation, as well as the dismissal of professional staff, I was well aware that I couldn’t ask a candidate about his or her marital status. It would have been helpful if one of the attorneys or you would have corrected me at the time I brought it up at our committee meeting.

No, Dave, I have no intention of suing RCSC for paying extra as a single Member/Owner. That would be foolish to save the equivalent of $250 a year! I was well aware of this when I purchased my current property, but made my decision on my own circumstances. Like you, my parents were grandfathered in so they had that advantage while they were still living. It seems like quite a leap for you to take me mentioning this inequity to suggesting a lawsuit.

Since we are in the election season for RCSC, I have discovered another inequity for a single Member/Owner. Two people on the deed allows for two votes while single landowners only get one. To me, that is more significant than the lot assessment difference.

In an earlier post, you mentioned that it would be difficult for RCSC to budget without knowing which properties had one or two Member/Owners on each deed. Not really, because there would be historical data to help build the budget. With an entity as large as RCSC, a three-year average would be pretty accurate. When I served on two Boards that were approximately the size of RCSC in net worth, operating budgets, number of employees, and constituents served, we always used three years for comparisons. It worked quite well as long as expenditures, and revenue, were assigned to the correct line items. Unfortunately that didn’t always occur. Thus the need for Board oversight and professional audits. We always had the CPA make a presentation about each annual audit in open session.

Dave, I am interested in your views about the changes the Board made to the bylaws that we worked so diligently on for seven months. As I recall, and you can confirm or disagree with me, all seven of us on the committee thought petitioners should be able to gather signatures on RCSC property. The Board members who voted against doing that said it would interfere with Members and it would be hard for staff to monitor. If that is true, it should be the same for Board candidates collecting signatures. The logic is the same.

The latest is that two current Board members, one of them our president, have been gathering signatures for absentee ballots on RCSC property. If this isn’t a double standard, then I don’t know what is!

I look forward to seeing you again to hear your thoughts on the changes the Board made, the lack of two meetings where Member/Owners could comment on the bylaws, as well as not informing Member/Owners about the $29 increase in the annual lot assessment. Now I can add that the very same Board members who oppose Members gathering signatures for petitions are out getting their own on RCSC property. Do they have no shame?

Janet Curry



Christine de Pizan said...

Janet, I admit that some of my responses were based on the tone of your post so we can drop the lawsuit portion.

As for voting rights, as you are aware the maximum number of member voting on each property is two provided both parties are on the deed. I am not sure of your argument but it seems under the per property fee structure that each property should have two votes whether one member or two members occupy the property. This presents the quandary of the one person one vote rule in so far as it would favor a single owner on a per property fee basis more electoral or other member voting with more power than a two member household. For instance, should a single person living in Fountain Hills have more voting power than a married couple in Maryvale neighborhood solely based the former pays more in property taxes? Obviously the answer is no because of the discriminatory nature of the basis for voting.

As for the revenue stream based on per person versus per property, I believe a simpler method of research is to review the number of per person properties converted over the past ten years. That would provide a more reasonable yardstick. By the way, I told Kevin McCurdy that I will never die just to keep my per person status.

Financial statements, a subject near and dear to my heart and a crusade I have been for at least the past twelve years. My view has been and our fellow committee member agreed with me that our financial statements are crap (I used a more colorful term). The monthly are getting slightly better but as a non profit we do not have net worth, we have restricted and non restrictive assets. Corporations have net worth. Next is the cash portion on monthly statements. Management takes what I call the Prego view, it’s in there. How are we to know what is the amount of operational revenue, I.e., revenue from monthly collection of fees and the cash carry forward if not spelled out? Speaking of cash carry, the nature of this seems to change with the direction of the wind. I have been told it is reserved for club improvements or fixed asset improvements and I have been told it is for operational. So which is it?

We do have CPA statements but they are a qualified audit as two entities are not included, Sun City Property Holdings, Inc. a wholly owned Subchapter S subsidiary of RCSC and The Sun City Foundation. Since these entities are not incorporated into the statement, the statement is is not unqualified. Since you, me and Pat Gannon understand statements and can analyze them, most of Sun City could not tell you the difference between EBITDA and Evita the musical, holding a member meeting to explain the statement would leave most people leaving before the end of the first reel. I have other complaints about the statements but save those for another time.

As for the gathering of signatures on RCSC property, that was deleted by motion as Allen learned that the Board couldn’t pass the new bylaws with that language included. Allen promised to reintroduce the language early next year when a new Board takes over and it passing stands a better chance.

In closing, a question for you, which travels faster in Sun City, the truth or a rumor?

Happy Thanksgiving and the day after the Pilgrims began the ethnic cleansing of New England and America which continued until 1890, Wounded Knee.

Dave

Janet Curry said...

Hey Dave, Evita is my favorite musical. Madonna at her best! Unfortunately I have never seen the Broadway production.

I can go with a ten year average for per person property for assessments. And I also concede that property taxes and number of voters aren't always equitable. Here in Nebraska, my bachelor neighbor has one vote while both Bill and I can both vote.

You give me too much credit about understanding financial statements. I know the basics. During the nine years I served on our hospital board, also a 501(c)4 with a separate Foundation, I asked to meet with the CEO and CFO to better understand the finances. They said at least I asked about them. They admitted many of the other Board members, many of them businessmen, also didn't understand them. By the way, our hospital has twice the assets, number of employees, residents served and operating budget as RCSC has.

I have spoken with Allan. After all the changes the Board made, I do not think that our bylaws revision is worth saving. Really I have always had my reservations about them. The current ones are poor, but better than the new ones. Of particular concern is that Members cannot vote on their own motions, petitioners are not allowed to collect signatures on RCSC property, Board members can be fired permanently using four very vague bullet points. It allows for an abuse of power. In fact I fear that the current Board may use that to fire the Directors that don't vote the way the President wants. I hope I am proven wrong!

Additionally, at our last committee meeting, I was not allowed to introduce anything, but we changed the language in the section on Committees that will now allow any Chairperson to close committee meetings. As I stated then, this could potentially lead to all committee meetings being closed. This was a late change so it has been mostly unnoticed.

I think rumor travels quickly everywhere. Sun City is no different than most places. Fortunately, truth usually prevails.....eventually.

I read Wounded Knee many years ago. Our European ancestors took advantage of the Native Americans by taking their lands, forcing them onto reservations, and taking away their dignity. Perhaps the worst was introducing alcohol to them. We live 20 miles from Genoa NE where there was a large Indian school. They are currently looking for the burial site of the students who died there. Also I grew up about 45 miles south of an Indian reservation just over the border in South Dakota and saw the devastation of their lives. My great grandmother lived next to the Pine Ridge Reservation which is where the Wounded Knee Massacre happened. She taught the Indian children to read and provided magazines and books to them. What happened to a talented and independent race is a tragedy. I have always wondered why our country doesn't celebrate a Native American Day. It is certainly deserving.

Tomorrow's meeting will be interesting. Now that two Directors, including the President who is also the Chair of the Election Committee, have been found to solicit signatures for absentee ballots on RCSC property, I don't know how they can still oppose Members getting signatures for petitions on the same properties. I hope they have the honor to resign immediately because they have jeopardized the legitimacy of the entire election process.

See you soon,

Janet Curry

Bill Pearson said...

Fascinating commentary regarding the bylaws rewrite Janet. I didn’t volunteer to be on the committee, I readily admit i have a bias that favors an absolute return to those days when the membership and their voice was valued, not feared. I’ve also written extensively about the bylaws rewrite on TOSC and in my opinion they are worse, not better. I wrote contract language for a living and i know words matter.

Your hands on analysis is much appreciated. You were there, we weren’t. All i can do is comment on the outcome, not the process. Curious how Pat feels as he wrote two of the changes proposed at the annual membership meeting and they were both flushed by 4 members of the board who were afraid of the members having their voices restored.

Even more troubling is the fact the current board president, chairman of the election committee and one of the 4 board members who threatened to sandbag the new bylaws if she didn’t get her way is out gathering signatures at club meetings for absentee ballots. Let’s be clear, attached to the request was who to vote for. Worse yet, the club meeting was at Lakeview and the club members could have simply stopped down at the RCSC offices and requested an absentee ballot once their meeting was over.

Now the real question is; how many clubs have they been doing this for? So we are clear Dave, your expertise regarding finance is one thing, mine regarding leadership is another. Dale has what we called “position power” and abusing her authority is shameful.

Janet Curry said...

I wish the four Directors who oppose Member/Homeowners gathering signatures on RCSC properties would have told us that at the beginning of the process. Since I could never accept that notion, I would have gladly resigned immediately and saved myself hundreds of hours of frustration. After all their changes, I wonder why they just didn't write the bylaws revision themselves. At the Annual Membership nonmeeting, Dale said that the Board had [acted,discussed,not sure of the word she used] on all of the Members' motions from a year ago but that they needed a few words tweaked so they formed the Ad Hoc committee. Seven, now eight months later, and hundreds of hours on my part, to "tweak a few words"? I think most of the words I contributed were "untweaked" by the Board.

Christine de Pizan said...

Janet, interesting on your family’s experiences with the Sioux. From age five to age eight my only experience with Native Americans was westerns on TV. The first driving trip the family took went through NE (US30 before the Interstate). One night we stopped in Ogalalla and there was a free show of the Sioux doing hoop dancing. My brother and I were mesmerized and it totally changed my view of Native Americans to this day. Another book if you can track it down and it is a bit difficult to read is A Century of Dishonor by Helen Hunt Jackson and I would like to toss in the book Black Elk Speaks. Read them as part of my history in college and read them again every once in a while.

As for the signatures on RCSC property, that was a strategic move to get the bylaws passed. Allen was going to reintroduce adding it once the new Board was seated.

As of today we still have no budget the by laws failed, consequently the RCSC is looking for a shutdown on January 1st and the old bylaws with portions that should be policies are in effect. Quite a day for the howling jackal contingent.

I would also add that Steve Collins is clueless and should not be re-elected as evidenced by today’s performance..

Bill, finance and legal are my bailiwick and I have held leadership positions during my careers. I don’t see leadership as whipping up a group of people who are clueless and have followed The Big Lie fed them. I will bet Karen McAdam knows the real story on Barbara Brehm and I grantee it isn’t over financial statements.

I can now say that my bylaws days are over and I will not field any more questions regarding them. The old bylaws are in effect in all their glory and should make for an interesting future. The shit sandwich lives!

Anonymous said...

It seems to me that if a corporate employee is designated to CONTROL ballots, there is a paper trail of who received ballots. I would assume that all ballots have an assigned control number so that it can be traced and verified.

If the above is true, then any ballots GIVEN to board members that they in turn passed on to members of the clubs they belong to (with instructions on who to vote for), those ballots should be invalidated.

Unfortunately, the damage has been done and we will probably never know how many votes were obtained through ballots handed out by board members.

Clearly the board and the board president who was chair of the election committee have a conflict of interest.

If you agree that the board and specifically the board president have a conflict of interest in passing out ballots with instructions on who to vote for
you should contact as many people as possible to cast their vote for
Steve Collins
Jean Totten
John Fast.

I knew before ballots were doled out and voting started that there would be
monkey business with this election. I can't believe anyone else did not see this coming. The board does not want members on the board who lean toward doing everything possible for the members instead of the corporation.

please cast your vote for
Steve Collins
Jean Totten
John Fast.


Anonymous said...

Very sad that you all worked so hard for naught. Some of us appreciated all of your efforts and thank you all so much.
Steve is a sweetheart of a man whom I disagree with on many things, but he means well and is a good human being.
The woman who left at end of 2020 did so to move back East to be with her family. I spoke with her personally before she left as I used to see her sometimes when I ran in the mornings past her house. I will not divulge her reason(s), but I assure you she wasn't fired. Yes, sadly this is a Big Lie.

Bill Pearson said...

Sorry anon, but you and Dave are both wrong regarding Barbara Brehm. I have spoken with her in Florida several times. I also have her files and a copy of the lawsuit she wrote up when she was fired. On top of that a board member who shall go nameless told me why she was fired and what she did that triggered it. Which by the way wasn't an offense she should have been fired for. By the way, it was none of the suspects you might think who told me.

As far as today's events Dave, there's no celebration, no jubilation. I've written my remarks regarding today's shit show on TOSC and there's no dancing in the aisles. I didn't even mention the pity party you threw for yourself at the mic today, but it was beneath even you. Hopefully members will watch and see it for themselves. They can be their own judge.

I guess the best thing that can come out of today is you will quit telling us what a great job you did on the bylaws Dave. To each his/her own opinion, but what was proposed at the largest annual membership meeting in the RCSC's history did nothing NOTHING for the members.

Finally Dave, you old financial wizard you, the last thing that will happen if the gm's budget isn't passed is for the RCSC to shutdown. He could have/should have written a new budget or he could look at the 11 million dollar carry forward and say, we can easily get by. This hyper-inflation they've been dealing with has resulted in 2 million dollars more in cash in hand at the end of this year compared to 2021. The numbers don't lie Dave, they simply don't.

Finally anon, if you doubt my word, let me know and i will share Barbara's lawsuit with you assuming she says it is okay to do so. I will also reach out to her and see if she wants to tell you exactly what happened and why. Let me know.

Anonymous said...

Dave, You probably remember that Black Elk Speaks was written by John Niedhardt, a poet and writer, who was a newspaper publisher and Nebraska’s poet laureate from 1921 to about 1973. So, yes, every student in a Nebraska high school probably had to read it. Had to read it again in college English class. I will look for the other book sometime.

Big surprises at yesterday’s meeting. I watched the video last night. Major confusion on nearly every topic! I think it would be best to run the meetings on basic Robert’s Rules as it seems that there is always a nebulous exception that is never explained.

Did I hear Dale correctly that our parliamentarian volunteers her time? Wow, I assumed she was paid. She has spent a great deal of time with RCSC. Sounded like she might not be continuing. Perhaps faulty assumptions on my part.

Does anyone know why Darla changed her vote? Shocker! I bet her neighbor, Stella, isn’t happy. It’s one of the few times I have seen her vote with the minority. She is correct that our verbiage is confusing. I think we underutilized Carmel’s expertise. Often she tried to streamline the language but Allan said he didn’t want the Board to get bogged down if too many words were changed. As I recall, Carmel sent us some emails that several of our committee members didn’t read so she sent them a second time. She would have made the document easier to read.

The people on the stage denied a letter I wrote three different times during the meeting. Thanks to Allan for mentioning my phone call to him. I know that he pledged he would reintroduce the bylaw to allow signatures on petitions on RCSC properties. Since our committee was unanimous to include that, I suggested to him that he do just the opposite. I hoped he would honor and support our diligence and work by voting for it, let the four Directors torpedo the revision and then reintroduce the entire bylaws in February. Same thing, just the flip side.

Regarding the budget, I haven’t heard anyone mention a compromise. Why don’t they just split the difference and increase it $15. Then keep close track of how it is being spent. Too simplistic?

We are on the road to warmer weather. Twenty-one hour drive so you might get sick of my postings.

I have a few more interesting stories for you about Native Americans but I don’t want to bore the others reading this blog.

Janet Curry

Anonymous said...

Look up the definition of sophist and you will understand why he writes and talks the way he does. Dave should change his login to sophist of the year

Anonymous said...

Impressive the sophist can school everybody in the law in financial analysis and can even quote Latin what a contribution

Anonymous said...

Impressive the sophist now is a historian too

Christine de Pizan said...

Anonymous, as they say New Orleans, you so right fa dat. I also know how to break down beef, lamb and veal carcasses. Summer job during summer break from college. I am also working on a book about my fourteen years living across Wrigley Field. It is tentatively titled The View From The Roof (Fourteen years of bad baseball and great memories).

Janet, no compromise on the fee increase. The way it stands now, management will have to take $2Mill from cash carry forward to balance the budget. They will be taking $4.5Mill from the same account to deposit in Capital Reserve based on management’s review of same. I understand a new capital reserve study will be done next year. As for the potential shutdown, some people believe that we can continue using the carry forward money. This is a fool’s errand. Using the October balance sheet cash carry forward is about $13.4M. After subtracting the above figures you would have about $6.9 M. The total budget is about $26M, which means that it costs about $1.2M more or less per month to keep everything running. That means cash carry forward would only carry RCSC through May. I was advanced the thought what about member fees, well that depends on collecting every penny, which doesn’t happen. I have lobbied for an aging of receivables in the monthly statement but all we get is percentages. Be that as it may, member fees collected fluctuate and even so it isn’t enough to sustain operations. Numbers don’t lie.
My personal view, have a shutdown in January which would be the height of the season here, no golf, rec centers closed, furlough all unnecessary employees. See how that plays with the members and then these are the people who voted against the budget, they are the ones causing this problem over $29. Now we will see the villagers with torches and pitchforks.

As for the defeat of the bylaws, while disappointed I kind of believed this would happen. There has been vitriol in the weekly Pravda and social media that taking a fourth eight page document and whittling down to twenty-four was not in the members best interest. We also did not address their motions/concerns from last December’s meeting. Actually we did and we discussed, argued and came to a compromise on all of them. The compromise, a term Bill should be familiar with as the big tough union negotiator, was not good enough for them. Actually nothing was good enough for them. Somehow we have to live in a time when disco was dawning and crap like You Light Up My Life and Muskrat Love were being played on the radio. Well you got what you wanted and there will be another ad hoc committee next year which will have to tackle the shit sandwich, which we operate under again. I will be waiting to see if that finished product and I want the meetings open, transparency you know. I want to see who is arguing with who over what.

One last thing, the parliamentarian is a Sun City volunteer. She is an attorney, a certified parliamentarian, former judge and has been parliamentarian for many other associations. I hope she stays, very smart woman.

Res lipsa loquitor, the facts sleek for themselves

Deus illud volte God wills it battle cry of the Templar knights

Sophist spoken here

Christine de Pizan said...

Bill, regarding Barbara, I would really like the facts (allegations stated), but will settles for the cause of action (statutes cited). This doesn’t reveal any confidential information, just curious. I take it the suit was prepared by an attorney but never filed, I.e., a case number for some reason. Not interested in the reason.

The Karen situation still smells. The due process just doesn’t fly with me. Sorry Bill, I have been involved with lawsuits for way too long to accept her story. But then that’s me.

Dave the sophist. Tacitus is my favorite Roman historian, bloody good tales, literally.

Bill Pearson said...

I'm curious Dave, do you take yourself seriously or is this all just fodder for anther of looming book deal?

Tom Marone said...

Wow folks, you read it here first!

Our resident financial wizard now wants to make the implication that we should have Sun City come to a screeching halt for $29 dollars!

If that were true and we were operating on such a tight budget then NOBODY is doing their fiduciary responsibility!

And I still can't believe our general manager actually made that statement about shutting the doors! What was he thinking with? Obviously not his brain because I don't think even he believed what those words fumbled out of his mouth!

Gee, I know the guy has a tough job but my question is, when the budget failed at its first reading why didn't he take the proactive step and have his financial staff run the numbers without the $29 increase? But no, we'll just gang-up on a board member and force him to change his vote! It's easier that way, but we all now know how that turned out!

As far as the bylaws are concerned...good riddance! We're no worse off now then we would be if the re-write was approved! We still can't do shit without first having to go thru the RCSC and Board!

Forrest Gump said...

Oops. Someone left the psilocybin cabinet unlocked in Dave's house again...
No one is trying to shut down the rec centers over $29. The stink is that mgmt can't justify the need for it with (according to your numbers) $6.9 M sitting in the bank unrestricted, undedicated, not being spent for it's explicit purpose of providing rec facilities/activities for members and gaining what .002% interest. This became a stink because the idiots on the F&B committee (oh, wait...) thought they were god's gift to the rest of us peasants and didn't need to tell anyone they were digging deeper into our pockets for money that hasn't been shown to be needed. Is this where we bow down to you?? I always miss that cue... You sat there watching them bury $1 M a year into mason jars in the yard without providing proper oversight. This is where you spew some BS that it's needed based on some secret decoder ring result of some outer-space transmission. Speak plain Dave, why has a capital reserve study not been done BEFORE this rainyday fund ballooned??? Why has the one recently done not been made available to membership? Why did you purposefully not make public the assessment increase ?? Please explain, in small words so we morons can understand please, why its so IMPOSSIBLE to remove the 750,000 and re-submit the budget. Wait, I know, because numbers don't lie, right? Are you serious??? It's a frickin budget that EVERY year they come in $1 M under. They've been denying the Membership services to the tune of $1 M every year for 15 years and you think there will be shut down over $29??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh, my spleen hurts... HAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous said...

Dave, Our committee didn’t cause the bylaw’s review to fail. It was the four Directors who would not accept that signatures could be gathered on RCSC property. There was no compromise by our committee on this; we were unanimous on this. Pair this with the fact that three of the same Directors have been soliciting signatures for absentee ballots on those same properties, and the double standard is obvious. Then suggesting those Members vote for certain candidates is mind boggling especially by the CoChairs of the Election Committee. It doesn’t matter if this has been done before or that something similar, but not the same, occurs in Sun City West,

I began my participation on our committee with an unbiased open mind. However, watching what has happened in the RCSC meetings and REALLY getting to know the corporate documents has helped me form my current opinions. It seems that the Board leadership is more concerned about Robert’s Rules of Order at the expense of following our own bylaws which supersede the RONR.

Every few days, something new crops up. If it isn’t a conflict with the Posse, it’s a $169,000 mistake on a garage door, an unannounced $29 increase for rec center fees, or something else. Members don’t seem to be able to get answers.

Sorry that you are disappointed about both the bylaws and budget votes, but I think you are pointing your fingers at the wrong people.

Janet Curry

Tom Marone said...

Speaking about the Chair and Co-Chair gathering signatures for absentee ballot requests along with their personal endorsements!!!! Who's the Einstein's who determined that only members of the Election Committee are allowed to pass around those forms?

Gee, common sense would tell you that the candidates themselves should be able to get those forms and leave the Election Committee members out of the picture.

The optics are not good when members of the Election Committee are the only ones allowed to request those forms and the Candidates can't!

Geez! Can it get any more corrupt?

Anonymous said...

I'm wondering if this whole thing should just be controlled by independent parties. There is a policy in place that keeps it totally neutral. That way nobody could feel any undue influence by a candidate or a Board member. Even if they are just signing up to receive a ballot maybe we need to think about the possible implications. Just a thought.

Anonymous said...

I would like to see the written policy that allows Election committee members to gather signatures as well as the minutes of the meeting where this was adopted. Since RCSC standing committees do not have the authority to pass policies and can only make recommendations to the full board, this would have been passed at a Board meeting with written minutes. How many other people on the Election committee have been doing this?

I was told that this has been done before. Nope, shouldn’t be happening without written and approved policy or bylaw. It makes one wonder if the past election results were valid. What a can of worms! And these are the same Directors that constantly refer to their “fiduciary duties”.

Since our President is fearful to have petitions on RCSC property due to potential personal lawsuits, this action would be more likely to prompt litigation. I hope she doesn’t lose everything which she said was possible even though RCSC has insurance for both Directors and their spouses for liability. Dale, Sue, and Darla, I suggest you stop this practice immediately to protect yourselves and your assets.

Janet Curry

Tom Marone said...

Janet, I'm on the Election Committee. Have been for about three years. We never discussed this policy while I was on the committee let alone make a recommendation to the board. Just like we (the committee) weren't involved when suddenly those 20 rules for voting at the Annual Membership meeting were suddenly disclosed by Jerry Walczak?

This was a decision made strictly by the either the RCSC Staff, the Chair and probably Co-Chair of the Election Committee, but most probably both! Typical back-room shenanigan's for a selected few.

The Election Committee was never asked about this, never discussed how many Request for Absentee Ballot Forms will each Committee Member be allowed to have at any one time (we are only allowed 2 forms and when they get filled-up we can turn them in to the corporate office and request 2 more. And would you believe that the forms are initialed and embossed with the corporate seal! Geez, you think we were requesting the original document of the Declaration of Independence!)

One doesn't have to think too hard to figure out why only Election Committee Members can request those forms. I'll go far enough to say that if certain people on the Election Committee didn't get caught collecting signatures and making endorsements nobody would have ever known they were trying to influence the upcoming election to protect their own positions on the board! I'd love for somebody to prove me wrong but I doubt that will happen. Still can't figure out why the Candidate's themselves can't get the forms?

There, I said it out loud!

Anonymous said...

Christine,Dave, whomever else!
About our esteemed volunteer parliamentarian:

Rae Chornenky
GOP feud fuels official’s resignation amid vote fraud claims
By: Arren Kimbel-Sannit November 27, 2020

Rae Chornenky – the former Maricopa County Republican chair whose resignation capped off an election season full of intra-party conflict – admits she probably should have seen it all coming. “Now that I stand back here and look, this has been building my whole term,” she told the Arizona Capitol Times in an interview about the ...

Arizona Capitol Times
https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2020/11/27/gop-feud-fuels-officials-resignation-amid-vote-fraud-claims/

Maricopa County GOP chair resigns after skipping election equipment verification test
Yvonne Wingett Sanchez
Arizona Republic
November 12, 2020
Rae Chornenky, the chair of the Maricopa County Republican Party, has resigned from her position after Democrats called her out for skipping a meeting ahead of the election where the county’s ballot tabulation machines were tested.

Chornenky, an attorney backed by the state's more establishment Republicans, had long clashed with the further-right-leaning figures within the state’s Republican Party.

Calls for her to step down started after Maricopa County Democratic Party chair Stephen Slugocki reminded the public in a Twitter post that in October she had not attended a logic and accuracy test of election equipment.

More:
Arizona Republic
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/12/maricopa-county-republican-party-chair-rae-chornenky-resigns-skipped-election-equipment-test/6263050002/

Anonymous said...

If there is no policy to back them up, then wouldn't this behavior be considered misconduct or some other serious violation?

Tom Marone S C Advocate said...

Funny man anon! And just who do you suppose would allow the authorization of a recall petition?

Bill Pearson said...

Not sure what comment you are referring to Tom from anon, but the one immediately above you i think was regarding your remarks about the illegal collection of signatures on RCSC property of absentee ballots.

As Janet pointed out above, there would have to be a motion from your committee to the board to approve doing that. State statutes mandates those minutes from board meetings saved into perpetuity so they have to have it somewhere and they should be able to produce said minutes. You know it didn't happen under your watch over the last 3 years. I had coffee with Ben who was on the election committee before you and he doesn't recall any such discussion either.


I'm sorry to say this but the board president's actions aren't a throw away oops mistake. Worse yet is the general manager stating it's okay because it's been going on for the pat 9 years. Show us the paper work proving that; please. It will save you both (the general manager and the board president) from looking like you are trying to fix the election outcome.

Anonymous said...

Part of me has some sympathy for RCSC leadership and management because I know the time they have spent on RCSC affairs. Somewhere along the line they got on a misguided path and have never navigated to a better one. Maybe they need to ask Siri for directions!

I am pretty sure that Directors, Management and staff are all good people. However I agree with Bill that the gathering of signatures for absentee ballots, accompanied by recommendations on who to vote for, cannot be overlooked.

The bylaws currently in place say that Members have the right to see corporate documents but there is a convoluted process to see them. Surprised? After filling out a form, which is on the RCSC website, the request needs approval from Guess Who? The Board, of course. The big question now is, “Will the Members be thwarted again?” If they cannot provide written documentation the Election committee should meet, look for ways to remedy the situation, and make a recommendation to the Board since a committee has no authority to make decisions. That will necessitate a special Board meeting, as laid out in the current bylaws, since the next meeting is scheduled for after the election is over. What a mess!!

Anonymous said...

I forgot to list my name on my last post. Janet Curry

Anonymous said...

During our Ad Hoc committee meetings, we were told that anything in federal or state law didn’t need to be in the bylaws because it is mandatory for RCSC to follow the laws. If I recall correctly, the protected classes were added at one of our later meetings. I can’t exactly recall our conversations about why we added the protected classes when it is in the law. Dave, can you remember? It seems that we added one:

Bill, FYI, We did not add in recall petitions to the section you are referencing. Originally we had all three petitions, Initiative, Referendum and Recall, in the same section. When the language requiring the petitioner to cite the specific bylaw, we moved Initiative Petition out. That language was added in at one of later meetings, I believe. I am traveling so it isn’t easy to double check the minutes/notes from our committee meetings.

Janet Curry

Janet Curry

Christine de Pizan said...

This for jeb on TOSC, you are not stupid and actually good question. As you are aware the Board passed a motion regarding the removal of certain policies that were formally in the bylaws. This was required in order to pass the new bylaws. When the motion to pass the new bylaws failed, RCSC reverted back to the current bylaws where the formerly stripped policies were located. Consequently, the motion yesterday is moot because those policies are contained in the current bylaws.

As for the question of using the cash carry forward for operations, once 4.5M is withdrawn for deposit in Capital Reserve and accounting for the $2M needed to cover the budget shortfall provided a budget is passed that leaves about $6.9M. I am using the cash carry forward from the October statement for the calculations.

Now the budget for the year is about 26M, that figure divided by 12 months shows that about 1.2M is required each month. Now I agree some months will required more funds than others and some months will require less. That said, I would venture to say the January through April will require more revenue than others, which means the RCSC would not have enough funds by the end of May. I spoke with some members that advanced that member fees would alleviate that. Since the membership for revenue purposes is not divided equally over twelve months, it does not help and also all fees are not paid on time and some we never collect. So yes, the budget is being held over $29.

Someone asked about the reserve study. Reserve studies are done normally every five years and the last one was done in 2018. The cost is not cheap, a through study of the RCSC would cost about $100,000. This study is important because it determines whether or not the Capital Reserve is sufficient.

Probably missed some others but I will see if I can address them. No bylaw questions as we went from a potential 24 page document back to a 48 page shit sandwich.

Bill Pearson said...

Dave. You do know the motion that was originally made at the budget and finance committee did not include the 4.5 million dollars moved to the cash reserve account. Apparently Bill Cook wanted that fund to go to 10 million dollars but the motion did not include doing that. Just because the general manager wants something does mean he is entitled to it. He works for the board. Something that has been severely twisted along the way.

The other thing you quietly neglected to mention was the moronic statement that RCSC would have to shut down January 1 if the board didn't give him what he wanted (which is more money in the bank). As i would hope you know, the facilities agreement is a contract between the owner/members and the RCSC whereby we pay them to keep the amenities running. His revenue is a constant by the way, unlike many non-profits with massive fluctuations on a yearly basis. Even better, when they need the money and can justify the increase, they have always gotten it.

His options are to rewrite his budget which he clearly refused to do to date or to spend some of the 10 plus million dollars of carry forward budget. It would be fascinating to see him close down the facilities on January 1 and just how many lawsuits would immediately follow for breach of contract. But, what the hell do i know?

One last comment, moving the board policies wasn't conditional on the bylaws passing, so i'm not sure your comments regarding them are correct. Though given the crap pile we watched last Thursday, that might be the least of our problems.

Linda McIntyre said...

Dave. I know after our conversation Thursday you think I'm clueless, but humor me for a minute. I have Dec 2021 financial statements and everything through Oct in front of me. Last year ended with about $12.4 M in available cash, NOT including operating reserve. We are $2 million ahead of that figure at the end of Oct.

Let's assume we finish strong. We start 2023 with CASH ON HAND somewhere in the $12 to $14 million range woth the reserve. The first 3 months of the year are very strong; this year the first three months were close to, or over, a million dollars in excess of income over expenses. So, without even touching cash on hand, RCSC could operate within the existing budget. It's unreasonable to think a new budget would not be adopted within the first two months of 2023; but actually, with some grownup teamwork between the Board, F&B and management, a budget could be worked out by the next meeting.

Until there is clear and convincing evidence of the rationale of why there is a need to move over 4 million to operating reserves, they can table that to another day. This Board and its standing committees have a lot to do to bring daylight to their decision making processes. Operations do not cease because there isn't an adopted budget. They operate within the parameters of what currently exists. Pay raises are retroactive, there could be a slight delay in purchases, but money already allocated is still there. But to even suggest a cash rich organization such as RCSC shut down is beyond irrational. When there is a $2 million operating excess from a prior year, it's a no-brainer. Even without that kind of cash, the Board has the authority to extend the budget or authorize an emergency spending plan to keep everything moving smoothly. Maybe if the budget was prepared in an open and forthright manner to begin with, we wouldn't be in this situation. The blame lies mainly with management on this, and also a poorly devised set of budget development planning and policies.

It's time to get the proverbial house in order.

Anonymous said...

Please clarify for me the following;
1. The verifiable, documented data that Board members/ Election Committee Members/MEMBERS have done the following;
A. Obtained actual BALLOTS from the RCSC individual employee charged with Controlling ballot distribution
Or
B. Created a signup sheet to obtain ballot(s) for anyone but themselves with a note attached telling the recipient of the ballot who to vote for in the
upcoming Board Member Election.

So the above requires an answer to 1A and 1B.

2. Please provide club names or RCSC sites where sign-up sheets were circulated.

3. Can you document that either Board Members/Election Committee Members/
MEMBERS procured ballots or signatures on RCSC properties meaning club
facilities located on RCSC properties?

4. What do you intend to do with any information that has been collected/talked about in this thread alleging illegal collection of signatures on RCSC properties and recommendations by the collectors on who to vote for? Is this just an opportunity to vent or will there be specific actions taken?

3 questions above – so 3 answers would be great.


If ballots or signatures to obtain ballots were collected on RCSC properties by ANY MEMBER (Board Members and Committee members are MEMBERS) there was a violation of the bylaws and therefore the election process has been compromised.

If this is the case, the damage has been done and there is absolutely no way to correct it.

Future Board Member Elections should be handled by an outside firm with absolutely no input from either the Board or GM. The Board and GM should not see results like the rest of us. They should see them when they are announced at a Board meeting by the firm who is chosen to perform ballot distribution, collection, and tabulation of votes.

Bill Pearson said...

All good/fair questions anon, most of which have been rendered moot because both the board president and the general manager have claimed its all been done before, so it is perfectly fine. You know it and i know it, it's not.

Historically, board members have always favored one candidate or another. What they have never done is put their thumb on the scale to influence the outcome of the election. I will be the first to admit, rumors run wild in Sun City. That said, when confronted by what happened, they didn't deny it. They just said, no big deal.

The problem is, we don't know how much damage has been done. The good news is, we can find out easily enough. Board members should ask/demand to see the number of absentee ballots both sent and those pending being sent. We don't know if this happened at one club or 10?

The RCSC can easily identify the number of absentee ballots cast over the past 5 years. I would be stunned if the number was ever more than 100. You know as well as i do, they were more used by a handful of older members who were not computer literate and couldn't come to Lake View on the day of the in-house voting.

That's the first priority, determine the damage done. It may surprise you, but i have heard any number of stories i refuse to post or write. I can't "prove" them so i simply stay away from commenting. This one, regarding absentee ballots wasn't one of them, because it clearly happened.

With that said, there are ways to right the wrong, the RCSC doesn't like them. The day after this unfolded, a couple of things happened: One of the candidates created his own form to collect signatures for absentee ballots. At nearly the same time, an RCSC member stopped by the office to pick up the now stated "only an officially produced by the RCSC forms" to gather signatures. By the way, does the RCSC still have those "official forms" Dale used?

The member was confronted by the general manager who told her she didn't have the right to gather signatures; it had to be a member of the "election committee." Huh? The GM knew we could gather hundreds, maybe 1000's of signatures and he wanted no part of his staff mailing that number of ballots to members.

So, both efforts to "right the wrong" were shot down by management. They simply have no interest in righting the wrong, they are interested only in keeping control. I appreciate your comments are about the legal aspect of what has been done, but you know the pressures of members standing up and speaking out.

I have no idea where any of this is going. I do know members have said to me they were concerned the election would somehow be tampered with. My comment was always, they would never do that. NEVER. After what i have watched happen this year, i was clearly wrong.

Dependent on the outcome, i suspect the ugliness and the back room manipulations may well be told. Not trying to create a Geraldo Rivera safe opening event here, but once the election is over, even you may be surprised by the things you hear.

We'll see.

Linda McIntyre said...

When the "rumor" started about "ballots being distributed at the bead club by a board member" I called the corporate office, because I couldn't believe it, and I wanted to dispel the rumor. I was told that BALLOTS were not being distributed, only a sign up sheet to obtain names and Rec #'s that would then be returned to the office for processing according to normal protocol. I said the rumor was that names of candidates were also attached. In our back and forth that wasn't clearly responded to. I neglected to ask a followup if anyone else could circulate those papers, so I sent a followup email. I received a response the next day, apologizing for the late response; they had "discussed the topic at their meeting today." Only election committee members may circulate such papers. Interestingly a three-year member of said committee got an email shortly thereafter stating he could pick up papers to obtain names for those wanting absentee ballots. This doesn't pass the smell test. So, is the entire election compromised? I personally feel there is a lot of explaining to do. The manipulation of published procedures to obtain absentee ballots, and the double standard for collection of signatures for any purpose on RCSC property speaks volumes about the integrity of those involved. We need someone to step forward that signed the form to tell us if there was any type of card attached. But the Chair of the election committee and Chair of the Board interfering is my concern. Neutrality should be her role. After all, she will be serving with whomever wins. The mistrust and dysfunction is going to continue.

Janet Curry said...

Linda, I am just wondering what meeting was held where "they" discussed the sign up sheets for absentee ballots. A Board meeting, Election Committee meeting, Management meeting, or staff meeting? If it was a meeting of the Board, it must have been their "Planning Meeting" where the Directors meet with the General Manager, but Members are not allowed to attend. This is the reason why I preferred those meetings be open to Members. While I understand it is easier to be more candid in closed session, we are now left wondering what happened at that meeting, what decisions were made, and the rationale for continuing the practice.

At one of our Ad Hoc meetings, a past Board member indicated that the President could take steps about a particular issue if there was nothing written in the bylaws to prevent it. The Parliamentarian informed the past Board member that was not the case. I can't remember the topic, but the Parliamentarian was firm about needing it written in the bylaws or policies.

Janet Curry

Linda McIntyre said...

Janet,

I don't know what kind of a meeting it was. But, because of a message I received - there was an "informational" meeting, whatever that is. But, it wasn't a full Election Committee meeting, because I know a member of that committee who received an email (not too long after I got mine) stating that their committee could collect signatures, which was a total surprise! So, who knows what's going on. But, your description sounds most likely. There are definitely a lot of questions that need answers!

Janet Curry said...

Linda, I was mistaken. You are correct that it would be an "Informational" Meeting where the Board meets with the General Manager, and others, but Members are not allowed to attend. Our Ad Hoc committee was told these meetings were started after the Member/Board Exchanges to brainstorm how to respond to the issues brought out at the Exchanges. I wanted to limit them to only topics that were brought up at the Exchanges, but they wanted to be able to deal with any topic that might arise. Overruled, again!

I see that there is an Election Committee meeting scheduled for 1:00 p.m. on Wednesday, November 23rd, in the Lakeview Board Room.

Janet Curry

Anonymous said...

Janet,

Interesting. And, I think you were correct - if the objective is to brainstorm topics brought up following the exchange, then that's what the meeting should have been limited to. They never cease to amaze me. Probably should make plans for Wednesday?

Linda

Anonymous said...

Slightly different topic, but a very important one..
Technology!
Where is it in Sun City?
According to the Web site, the last Technology Committee meeting was 05/11/22.
The minutes from that meeting state that the next meeting is scheduled for
09/14/22.
Was that meeting ever held? If not, why not?
If it was held, where are the minutes?
If it was held, was isn't the web site updated to reflect that?
Why isn't Kat Fimmel on top of this? She has been a complete disappointment.

I sent 3 emails to all board members asking for an update on the Technology Committee meeting and so far as of this writing, I've gotten three responses, and none from Kat Fimmel.
None of those responses answer the questions I posed regarding the scheduled meeting for 09/14/22.
If both Kat and Dale want more data from technology, why arent they responsive and on top of this?
What has been done to update technoloy?

Linda McIntyre said...

Anonymous....please come to the Member/Board Exchange on Dec 5 and ask the same question! Even if you finally get a response, ask why there isn't more action? Technology is a critical issue. RCSC in general can't seem to "walk and chew gum at the same time" ... or maybe, to be fair, there just isn't enough human capital allocated to all of the essential projects. RCSC is a big operation with a lot of moving parts. Maybe it's time to re-evaluate our staffing. It's really hard to know. There's not a lot of good communication between all of the essential players - maybe teamwork is a better word.

Bill Pearson said...

It is curious Linda, the beginning of the year we heard how far behind we were technologically and now we've heard nothing. At one point there were comments the the "supply chain" issues and then nothing. If memory serves me, the general manager was proposing a 3 year plan. The obvious question is, is that fast enough?

Linda McIntyre said...

Bill, it's like most things; when questioned, we just get words. But, do we ever see a plan? Tech is so critical, yet the Committee hasn't met since May? A concerned member can't get a response from the Chair or ANY Board member after 3 attempts? And they are indignant that members want answers? The GM is tired of being criticized on social media? When a project has been labeled a top priority, it is just logical that there would be more activity, updates, and a desire to keep members informed. What's so hard about communication?

Anonymous said...

Just sent an email for the 4th time requesting infoemation on the
Technology Committee meeting results or lack there of.

I did receive 2 responses - on from Lenefsy and can't remember the other.
Both answered with BS like I aint on that committee.

This board and especially Kat are a disgrace.