"In my opinion, I would have to close down!"
We kid you not, at the November 17 board meeting this statement was made by the RCSC General Manager. There was a spirited debate regarding the $29 lot assessment increase buried in the acceptance of the RCSC budget for 2023. They tried to pass it at the October meeting and it was voted down, because there was some concern, or was it confusion? In either case, it failed. They brought it back up at the November meeting and once again on the agenda, all it said was Unfinished Business: 1. Motion to Reconsider. No explanation, no nothing.
That again prompted a heated debate between board members who look at the nearly two million dollars of carry-forward money unspent in 2022 asking why we need any increase at all? It's a really fair question given that since 2016 they have added ten million dollars plus of carry-forward cash. During the discussion, Director Lenefsky asked the general manager this: "what happens if there is no budget approved on January 1?" Bill Cook stepped to the mic and calmly told the board of directors this; "In my opinion, I would have to close down" (you can watch the exchange here).
If you watch it, you will hear the loud audible groan from the audience who apparently understand how Sun City works better than the general manager. The board president informed us all she could clear the room if we didn't show more restraint when being threatened with closing the owner/members' amenities (my take). Let me be very blunt; the answer he gave was and still is the least likely thing to happen. He had several good answers he could have given; "I would have to rewrite my budget to fit the income I have available." Or, as most of us recognized, he could have said, "it's not a problem, I have so much excess cash on hand I can easily get through 2023 and see what our needs are in 2024."
That's the reality of where Sun City is from a financial position, and they won't even discuss it. We have never had so much cash on hand, and that is totally ignoring the Preservation and Improvement Fund (PIF). As a non-profit organization, the RCSC's job isn't to accumulate cash, it is there to provide service to the members. On top of that, the contract we all signed, called a facilities agreement, mandates we pay them every year in return they provide the amenities to us. As the owner/members, any suggestion they lock us out of them is foolishness personified.
The vote to delay the discussion till next month was approved by a 5/4 vote. Stay tuned as this continues to unfold. Sadly, the GM's comments were heard by employees who took his words to heart, and they asked me after, "what happens to our jobs if they have to close the facilities?" Tragic really when you consider closing the amenities isn't an option. He should better understand the things he says, some people take seriously.
"Consensus Agreement"...not so much!
The much anticipated new and improved RCSC Bylaws were presented to the membership at the November 17 board meeting. There was an argument about whether this was the first reading or the second reading, but the debate is for naught. The motion to approve failed by a 5 yes, 4 no vote. Bylaws changes need 2/3rds (6 votes) to pass. John Nowakowski, Steve Collins, and Karen McAdam voted against the passage. The shocker came when Darla Akins joined with the minority members to reject the bylaws rewrite. Kudos to Darla for standing with the members.
This portion of the meeting dragged on forever. You can watch it here , but it is lengthy with both commentary from the membership and lots of exchanges by board members. The rewrite, for those who don't know, was an effort that sprang from the "largest RCSC membership or board meeting in our 60-plus year history." 5 motions were made from the floor by members in December of 2021. All of them tried to restore the membership's role in governance and having a voice.
The committee of 7 worked long and hard trying to forge a document that satisfied both the board and members. While the cleanup in the document was good, every other change was suspect at best. The committee chairman had been calling it a "consensus agreement." I won't bore you with the details, but 2 of the members agreed because of the language regarding the collection of signatures on RCSC property. When that was struck down by 4 board members, they withdrew their support. Both Patrick Gannon and Janet Curry were onboard until the board inflicted their will on the document.
Several of us following along have been critical of the rewrite. That said, had it passed it would only have meant in 2023, more changes would have been needed. Now, we have no idea where this is headed, I suspect much depends on what happens with who wins the election in December.
Are You Freaking Kidding Me?
Sorry for the semi-vulgarity, but an incident transpired this past week that shocked and stunned RCSC members across the spectrum of opinions out there. Even hard-core, they can do no wrong, members were upset. It came to light that signatures were being collected on RCSC property. For those of you following the bylaw rewrite, this has been the most contentious issue in the new bylaws. 4 board members told the chairman of the ad hoc bylaws committee if collecting signatures on RCSC property wasn't removed from the document, they would vote it down.
He went along for the "sake of the agreement." Not that it mattered in this case, the old bylaws are in place. Turns out a report was submitted that the board president, chair of the election committee, and one of those demanding the removal of signatures was the one collecting signatures on RCSC property. When confronted, she claimed, as the chair of the election committee, she had the authority to be at RCSC club meetings helping members sign up to receive absentee ballots.
While on its face it seems innocent enough, the rest of the story gets pretty ugly: Along with said signatures was a list of candidates to vote for (anyone but Steve, Jean, and John Fast). Adding to the mess, the claim was made that it was done to help "little old ladies" who apparently weren't capable of picking up the phone and requesting a ballot as stated in the election notifications for absentee ballots. But wait, it gets worse; when confronted, the claim was made that this was all well and good because this action was approved by the election committee.
Then several of the management team, when confronted by members asking to pick up sheets to go solicit absentee ballot signatures were told point blank, "only members of the election committee are authorized to do that." To date, no current or past member of that committee recalls that motion. Thankfully, committees cannot make those decisions, they need to make them as recommendations to the board which can then vote for or against approval. We are all patiently waiting for the release of those minutes showing us the motion approval.
Sun City Golfers, We Need Your Opinion.
While this topic wasn't raised at the board meeting, we did note the closure of the Lakes West course during the problems that arose with draining View Point lake. Nope, not blaming anyone for the issues, but we heard at the meeting one tournament was moved when the course was closed. We know we are now in the golf high season (November-April) and tee times are at a premium. We heard during the year about the challenges of long-time RCSC golfers not getting the tee times they try and book. We also know, much of the problem was because they were selling cheap full-play golf passes (literally half-price) to non-residents.
We were told that increasing the cost by $250 would resolve the issue (maybe). To be clear, it hasn't. In 2021, they took in 20k in outside full-play pass sales in Oct. In Oct of 2022, they took in 30k. Obviously, some of it was due to the increase. but the simple reality is, we are offering outsiders, non-residents the cheapest golf package in certainly the West Valley, if not all of the Phoenix area. I had an old friend who lives in Sun City West tell me he has buddies living there buying the RCSC full-play pass because it is way cheaper than where they live. That is insane.
So golfers here's where we want your input; we know Sun City West has one less course and a third fewer members than Sun City. We also know in 2022 at their annual meeting, the general manager reported they took in 2.49 million dollars in outside play. Somewhere between 25-30% of their golf revenue. They rely on outside play, like us they have a lot of golf courses and need the revenue from those not living in the community. Knowing all these things, I went to their bylaws and found this section especially good and may well work as guidance for Sun City in future bylaw rewrites: 2.1). The General Manager, with Governing Board approval, shall establish the parameters for non-resident participation.
2.2). Rules to ensure that Sun City West residents have priority over non-residents shall be established by the General manager.
The beauty of this is it keeps the decision-making process in the general manager's hands, but with the caveat, outsiders are never treated better (priority) over members. Any thoughts on how this would work on Sun City golf courses are appreciated?
One final reminder, sorry for the length, but there is so much going on you need to be aware of: Vote in the RCSC election...vote for Jean Totten, John Fast, and Steve Collins. You can vote online at the RCSC website. You can vote in person, Tuesday, December 13th at the Lakeview Social halls from 8 am to 4 pm or maybe the board president can sign you up on an absentee ballot signature sheet coming to your local club (said with a fair amount of snark).
Being abundantly clear, my opinions.
Bill Pearson
49 comments:
Totally agree with your comments. Here’s some thoughts to solve the golf issues.
1> Limit the number of rounds that non-members can play on their annual pass. I say 100 sounds reasonable.
2> Remove golf cart inclusions from all passes. If you need a cart, fine, pay the daily rate.
3> Eliminate the Guest rate. If you’re not a member, you’re a non-member and you pay the appropriate daily non-member rate.
4> Non-members don’t qualify for group rates. This should be reserved for members only.
5> Restrict non-member annual card-holders to one day reservations instead of the current 3 day window.
Any combination of the above suggestions would be an improvement.
Well said anonymous. We need to start thinking and acting like a community. There's nothing wrong with outside play as long as they don't take priority over the members.
I don’t know why I appear as Anonymous, but I’m Larry Owens
I'd explain it to you if i could Larry. I figured it was you based on the common sense approach to your solutions.
Sorry but when it comes to golfers complaining I can't feel sorry for them. I spent a year telling the golfing community that they were losing EVERY golfer on the Board and if they wanted fairness in 2022 they needed to run candidates. I could have had better results speaking to a brick wall. Nothing but crickets. So it's no surprise to me that the don't have things their way. They only have themselves to blame!
Uh..it listed me as Anonymous too... it's Rich Hoffer
Damn, some days i wish it would list me as anonymous.
Don't know if you've been following this season Rich, but unlimited outside full play has made it challenging for RCSC golfers to schedule prime time tee times. Sadly, the new GM sees golf as an opportunity to give the game away to outsiders. The golfers i served with on the board would have killed before they ever let that happen.
We need to have coffee one of these days, rumor has it he wasn't your first choice.
All see if this helps. I started this comment and in the line above what I'm writing it reads comment as anonymous. I clicked anonymous and selected Name URL and typed my name
Hey Rich - Am I being too pollyannish to believe we don't actually need golfers (or any special interest group) representation on the Board if we get ethical, fair minded people? I don't play pickelball, but can see the clear evidence we need more courts. I'm not in Players nor have ever been to a performance but see value in a Perf Arts Centr. I play very little golf, but am outraged we give non-residents preferential treatment and rates over members.
It's too bad Rich didn't stop back, i would have loved to hear his thoughts regarding the new general managers suggestion he would have to close down January 1 if he didn't get what he wanted.
Rather than golfers on the board, i would more like to see the golf advisory committee play a realistic role in setting golfing terms and conditions. Sadly, their voice is as well listened to as the rest of the memberships.
Bill, in fairness to the GM he did say that we were entering uncharted territory as this situation never came up in the past. When pressed he stated we MIGHT have to shut down. So it wasn’t a given and the door was open to other solutions.
You are a nice guy and I get what you are doing. We may have our disagreements such as Jean’s knowledge and competency or if Tom Marone has any vision beyond his $20 book, but please try to include the entire quote as I consider anything less disinformation.
No more bylaw questions.
Dave, at the risk of insulting your intelligence, we posted the exact link to Bill's remark's in the body of the article i wrote. Watch it again and then tell me if i misrepresented his comment.
Let's cut to the chase Dave and not worry about what Cook said. The link is there so i'm not sure how anyone would argue we were trying to put words in his mouth. He said what he said.
That aside, in that we know you are smarter than all of us (you've told us so), i'd love your take on the comment about him closing down January 1? I know, you're not an attorney, though you are never short of legal opinions which we all appreciate, but don't you think there might be a problem?
I'm sure you would agree, there are roughly 27,500 signed agreements between the RCSC and the membership. When we buy here we agree to pay, no matter what happens, we owe them $496 per year, unless of course you are grandfathered as you are...then it's half that.
Doesn't that signed agreement obligate the RCSC to keep our facilities open? I mean, for other than the pandemic. I guess the general manager could argue he's angry they didn't give him his increase, but do you honestly think a judge would buy that argument?
We know they are going to close out the year with 1.5 million to 2 million dollar carry over, so what's the rush? Looking forward to your legal expertise.
Bill, first I have never said I am smarter than everyone. You said that and not to put to fine a point on it, cut that shit out.
As for no budget, potential shutdown, living off carry forward money I would again defer to what Bill Cook said about this being uncharted territory. Since I am unfamiliar with Arizona case law on this, I really can’t say what would happen or what RCSC could do. Now if there is no case law on this and maybe there is not as it is a bit of an unusual situation, any litigation on this would be known as a case of First Impression. That means simply there is no case law and any decision by the court would be the first time.
Back when I was a newbie and you were on the Board Jan was trying to get the AZ Water Dudes to go along with the lake leakage replenishing the aquifer as a way around water usage. She asked me to research and write an opinion on that theory. Carole and I did some research and there was no case law on point, so we wrote a memo that it would be a case of First Impression if we went through a legal process. Carole, if you are reading, can you give a quick look see on Rec centers or HOAs operating without a formal budget? Thanks.
Speaking of financial stuff, I just read Linda McIntyre’s blurb on audit reports and accountant’s notes. Neither her nor the financially obtuse Tom Marone understand what accountant notes to a statement are. These notes the format of the statement (accrual), where financial assests are located and what kind of financial instruments, method of depreciation and other items relating to the statement. The CPA letter at the beginning states what kind of quality the statement is (compilation, review, qualified audit and unqualified audit. It DOES NOT discuss any weaknesses in the operation of the business. That is what is referred to as a management letter. If no weaknesses are discovered, it is usually one of the last notes in the statement.
I did ask Bill at the November Board meeting if the CPA audit was available yet and he said no. I will ask him again next Monday as I would really like to see the 12/31/21 statement. You can look at the dopey 990.
I hope that clears up a couple points. Time to go slappent aileen.Orang Boven!
Your responses never fail to amaze me Dave. Perhaps you should have been an attorney, because your inability to answer yes or no to the most basic and simplest of questions is mind-numbing. I guess i could pull out my Facilities Agreement and see if there is an exception in it. You know, one where is states the membership has to keep paying their yearly lot assessment even if the general manager decides to shut everything down because he didn't get his way.
Obviously that is said tongue in cheek. You know full well the contractual obligation between the RCSC and the membership is incumbent on both parties fulfilling their obligations. Just freaking "duh." We pay them, they provide the services as defined in the Articles of Incorporation. There is no out provided that allows the general manager to take his ball and go home till he gets what he wants.
As long as we are going down this path, let's have some fun. Here's a test for you to answer:
1). How many employees of the RCSC does the board oversee?
2). Does the board work for the general manager, or does the general manager work for the board?
3). If the general manager threatens to close down the amenities on January 1, who should step in and set him/her straight?
4). Does the budget process belong to the general manager, or should it be a function worked in concert with the board and the finance and budget committee?
Waiting with baited breath for your answers (just kidding, take your time).
Hmmm, I can recall annual audit reports, given in person by the CPA as well as written copies, at many Board meetings in my past experiences, most notably our local hospital (501 c 4), hospital foundation (501 c 3), school district (government), library foundation (501 c 3) as well as many others. Most often, the auditor mentioned one weakness, usually not having enough people sign each check. Also, when I was Executive Director of our Adult Literacy Program, I was responsible for getting everything prepared for our audit. Perhaps we just do things the old fashioned way in Nebraska.
Janet Curry
Bill, you asked for my legal talk on the closure and I gave from a legal standpoint. Is there some case law that would override the FA? I don’t know. Is there some State statute that would override the FA? I don’t know. There is a thing called supremacy of statute, it might be worth your while to learn about it.
Now on to your questions.
1. One, the GM maybe also Kevin the money man but I’ll stick with one.
2. GM works for the Board.
3. My first answer would be the Board but probably after conferring with counsel. I imagine the Sun City Advocates might consider something. I have always felt since I first met John Fast that he is spoiling for a lawsuit. That’s just my chili burrito feeling opinion.
4. The GM as it is probably in his job description. Now as for involving the Board, s9me Board members are familiar with the process and some are just complete idiots who would prolong the process for no apparent reason. As for Budget and Finance, there are some members that are just deadwood. These people would drag the process out. As Mom used to say, “Too many cooks spoil the soup.”
Probably not the answers you are looking for, but next time don’t ask.
I was reading your post on TOSC on the financial statements where the clueless and totally ignorant rose to the top. There were posts about a Senior care center being built somewhere in Sun City, allegedly. Since it appears to being SCA commenting, I told you back in the beginning that you have trouble at times looking at the big picture. This is another instance. First it appears that everything is based on hearsay and rumor, but I will take a position that it is true. Did any of your masses see a large sign posted outside the building in question? My guess is no. That is important because in order to change the residence from a house to a care center there would have to be a zoning variation issued by the county changing the zone from a residence to care home. That would only happen after a hearing by the zoning board and a sign alerting the neighborhood of the hearing as evidenced by the sign listing what the zoning is being changed from and by who (property owners), the date, time and place of the hearing. Then there is 5he question of building permits. The GC on the job should have them on site that were issued by the county. Right Bill or am I misinformed?
Like I have said, I have a very special skill set that I am very good at.
Oranje boven! Ole! Ole! Ole!
If I remember correctly, the Facilities Agreement is recorded online at Maricopa County Assessor's web site.
The Facilities Agreement is a unilateral contract, no? Like a home or auto policy. You pay, these are our terms, take it or leave it. You pay each year regardless of if you use the amenities or not.
Yuppers.
What's slappent aileen orange boven?
Anon, it is a contract of adhesion.
Sleeping alone and the cheer drunk Nederland fans say. Tribute to my Dutch friends.
Deep breath Dave, your answers were mostly fine. The board has one employee, the general manager. The general manager works for the board and they have the authority to direct his actions. Unfortunately over the years, that practice has become somewhat twisted. Hopefully this election will change that dynamic back to it's original intent. The 3rd question was a trick, when the GM announced he may have to close the facilities of he didn't get his budget the board should have held him accountable. He doesn't have the authority to either do it or even suggest he would do it as mentioned above, he works for the board. The 4th question is curious, at least in your assessments off everyone involved. What's the point of having either budget and finance committee member or board members if they don't have a cursory knowledge of how our finances work?
While you have belittled Linda's "knowledge" of finance and budgeting, she ran a non-profit organization and worked with leading professionals in that field to insure those involved had a basic understanding. It's one of the obligations for board members to insure they fulfill their fiduciary obligations. They don't need to be experts, they can hire those, they do need to know the basics.
You appear fixated on the Sun City Advocates. I was surprised at your allegations the comments that appeared on TOSC were attributed to one of them. The question arose over group homes and while your remarks were valid about licensing, there's nothing to insure they have indeed done that. By the way, the person who posted, Skipper53, is not nor has he ever been a member of the Advocates. And so we are even more clear, this group home thing has been going on for at least three years now. Hopefully SCHOA is on top of it.
Eyesopen raised an interesting position, residents have been renting rooms out for years. I'm not troubled by that and adding a dimension with a legitimate care=giver isn't as troubling as a Sun City resident buying and remodeling homes and retrofitting them with 4 bedrooms and taking in residents under 55, but having a caregiver on staff or one resident 55 to meet the criteria.
Dave...you're correct. The management letter is the key to deficiencies. The one the CEOs dread. And it's curious that our current audit isn't available per Cooks statement to Bill Pearson...it's the precursor to filing the 990 which was due in Nov if my calculations are correct.
Seems like Janet Curry's and I share similar experiences - strange how those reports somehow are made to the Board, deficienciences and all. By the way, that's how we implemented our Whistle-blower Policy, a result of the 2002 Sarbanes-Oxley Law passed after Enron for public companies. Several of the provisions of that law have been carried over the the NP world. I haven't found such a policy for RCSC. Maybe I've missed it.
Linda, no deficiencies have been found in the last four audit statements I have had. I only have 2019 and 2020 at the moment and there is a note in the statement that no deficiencies have been found. CEOs may dread but a well run organization has nothing to fear with proper 8nternal controls. Back in the day I wrote policies for financial institutions, stockbrokers, some medium non profits and for small entities. When policy size deemed a thorough in depth underwriting, think financial institutions and stockbrokers our company had an internal control checklist in excess of 100 questions and that was just the start.
I asked Bill cook about the statement at tithe last meeting and he said it wasn’t available. Now before you go all paranoid on me, the audit did not begin until August as it cost less than joining the flock of companies wanting to start prior to tax day. Being a non profit, tax issues are really not germane. You also can file for an extension on the 990. Since you seem to know something about audit reports, please tell Bill for the 1000th time that CPA report is better than screwing around with 900s.
I am not sure about sarbanes-Oxley but I have a no bs relationship with Bill and Kevin. Must be my polite manner in lieu of being a screaming banshee and I have always received everything I have asked with no info withheld or deleted. Must be my sparkling personality.
Linda, Bill and the unwashed masses, I asked Bill Cook and Angie Nelson (comptroller) as to the 12/31/21 audit report today and they advised me that it would be available shortly. I will let you know when you can request a copy.
Thank you. However, if management continues its past practice of doing nothing with it, it probably doesn't matter when it's available. When the Finance chair has to REQUEST a copy of the most recent audit and the Dec 2020 is received in May 2022, there is a problem (our Finance Committee meeting schedule needs changes). But, if they were to adopt a Best Practice model: Step 1: As soon as possible after the new board is seated, the auditors present the report to the Finance Committe for their review. Step 2: Finance makes a report at the next regular board to accept. It may require recommendations for policy changes if auditors find deficiencies or have suggestions for improvements, but hopefully it is accept as presented, thank staff for their hard work and kudos to all.
Dave,
Nice to see you again! I was surprised that you didn't stay for the Budget presentation. Mr. Cook's slides contained some valuable information, perhaps some that you had already known, but the rest of us hadn't. His slides included comparisons, with data, to other 55+ communities in the area about capital reserves. His suggestions to have a capital reserves study done, followed by the Board adopting a target percentage made sense.
I haven't studied the issue enough to know whether the $29 increase is warranted or not. Part of the reason is because the information hasn't been available, to my knowledge. It would be helpful to have more specifics. For example, Management could determine that 30% was going to support clubs, 40% for staff related expenses, and the rest spread across the other budget lines. Also, it hasn't really held my interest as much as some other topics.
Not sure why you lumped Linda and Bill in with "the unwashed masses" but I would take offense if I were them.
If you are a Facebooker, check out my FB page. I have been reposting several quotes that I have found intriguing. Today: "Watch out for people who are always bragging about who they are. A lion will never have to tell you it's a lion."
Janet Curry
p.s. I have some more Native American history to share with you so watch your email in the next few days.
Linda, well 99.9% of sun city residents wouldn’t know what to do with and they wouldn’t know net quick assets from Nestle’s Quik. Actually I received a copy of the 2020 financial statement about may of last year. The reason for the lateness was because of my fear of getting COVID-19 as I am seriously compromised.
As for the Finance chair I find Karen completely out of her league and how she became chair is beyond my comprehension. As for the auditors presenting the report, not feasible as they are located in San Diego and predicting the composition of the Board next year I would say maybe three at the most actually understand it. As for when the audit report is available, I really want to change that along with some other ideas I have for improving the statement. I spoke with Pat Gannon when we were on the bylaw committee as he is a CPA about the audit report and some of my ideas and he mostly agreed. I would like 5he report easier to read and clarify some figures. An example is we have $8mill in some account but it really isn’t identified, Think we have $8Mil but what is it and where is it and what is it invested in if appropriate.
As for deficiencies, there is a note both in the 2019 and 2020 whrercthe accountants state that there are no deficiencies in our internal controls. I served as treasurer one year and spoke extensively writhe auditors on the internal controls regarding finances as I was familiar with this from my career.
I think that about covers it.
Dave. You are ever so quick to point out everyone else's shortcomings, at least those you either don't like or don't agree with. Let me pick your big brain: How qualified is/was Darla to be the treasurer? What outstanding qualities did Dale bring to the lofty position of president of the board? How about Sue when she served?
Does any of this resonate as how silly you sound when being critical of Karen or Jean? While all the while ignoring other's shortcomings? I am being pointedly obnoxious in my comments because every one of the board members over the past 62 years have been uniquely qualified or not. I've long argued you get what you pay for with volunteers.
That has been Linda's point, and through all of her comments, you've disparaged her as well. Her points have been, better training so those asked to fill positions so they have a clue as to what their duty entail. Sorry, it's not that freaking hard to do...unless of course there is no interest in doing so.
Let's wrap this up with another Q & A:
1). Who should set the amount of cash reserves the RCSC has on hand?
2). Who should decide when money should be spent on clubs?
3). Are all board members equal in your eyes? By the way, there are 9 of them. Should each have an equal voice? (consider that a bonus question).
Thanks, Bill.
Bill, no I don’t sound silly when I call out Karen or Jean. Jean’s resume is thinner than tissue paper. She’s not running because of her qualifications, such as they are, but because of Karen and the Big Lie. Don’t believe me, review the candidate forums when Jean said she was running because they treated Karen wrong. Other than that she was a waitress and an assistant to an assistant who took notes and she typed them up. Karen doesn’t understand budgets or the process, doesn’t know shit about financials but bloviates long and hard enough that you actually think she knows what she is talking about. Check out that bs she was running Monday on the financial statement and replacing money. Complete and utter nonsense. She runs a business in the Vaterland and speaks fluent German. If the Director of Krupp Thyess ever visits Sun City, she’s our person.
What are the qualifications for being treasurer? The ability to sign your name. The real reason we have a treasurer is to countersign checks weekly to pay the operational costs. That’s an internal control Linda. Just about anybody on the Board could be treasurer if they are not on lift support. The last treasurer I remember was Mike Kennedy.who had a strong financial background.
Tell Tom McClain the the Sundial roof collapse happen before Jan Ek was hired. I recommend fact checking to him, prevents embarrassment down the road.
Here’s my Q&A for you
1. Should the car club change there name to the Sun City Car Repair Garage because that’s what they have become.
2. Will pickle ball ever be satisfied with the amount of courts in relation to the amount of space we don’t have?
3. What is the over/under line when when the car club wants additional expense crap we have to pay for?
There are certain areas that Board members must bring as you cannot teach in a few sessions. Insurance, financials, investments, technology, heavy construction, etc. I was in insurance for 30+ years and there are coverages now that didn’t exist back in the day, but I do know the importance and I learn.
Dale and Sue were involved with education for decades and in management. They understand more than you will ever know or even me.
Sorry disjointed, late at night and I am very tired.
Dave: You should probably stick to posting earlier in the day when you aren't so "disjointed>" Your hatred and venom could not have been more abundantly clear than calling out Jean as a "waitress." Just freaking wow. Better yet, everyone you supported was uniquely qualified because of what they have done. Truly amazing. Read back what you wrote now that you've woken up and see how petty it all sounds.
For 60 plus years, Sun City has had members of all stripes volunteer to serve on boards and committees. Without them, we couldn't begin to function. What we never did was allow the general manager free reign to do whatever. Their job was the day to day operations, not determining either policies or long term strategies.
I've written volumes, some critical of board's actions, not of them personally. I simply don't judge them based on what they did in a past life, every word i have written is predicated on the actions they take. By the way, Linda and I have both run not for profit organizations and we both have stated, better training would make for better outcomes. Guess you disagree.
You ignored my questions, but i will answer yours:
1). The Vintage Car Club can do whatever they want to with their name. As you well know, all clubs have to conform to the documents governing them.
2). In that pickleball is the fastest growing sport in North America, we (Sun City/the RCSC) should be at least competitive with other age restricted communities around us. That means on a per capita basis, we should have 50 to 60 courts.
3). There is no over/under for "expensive crap" (is air conditioning in a Arizona building a luxury?), because the RCSC has told them to pound salt and die in the heat of next summers 110-115 degree temps.
Hope that helps, now your turn, answer my questions...or would you rather just keep insulting people who are running for the board?
By the way Dave, i have no administrative authority on TOSC. I am a poster, like everyone else. If you have problems with something someone writes on there, login and address it. Not my job to do clean up in aisle 5.
Based on your remarks above Dave, it appears as if you have issues with at least one of the clubs at the newly opened Grand Center. Interesting because i would love to see a deep dive on the connections between clubs receiving space there and relationships between past and current board members so see if there was any connection to the outcomes?
But alas, that would be picking fly shit on my part. I would however love to see the current board presidents data that suggested we needed an indoor archery range. We now know everything should be data driven (at least in here eyes), so producing that documentation should be a piece of cake.
And as long as i have your attention and you being the resident expert regarding insurance; is it reasonably or factually accurate when the general manager uses the Sun Dial roof collapse as the reason to grow our reserves? By his own admission at the meeting you left the other day, we have a rainy day account of roughly 8 plus million dollars for just such emergencies.
So with that setup out of the way: What does it mean when we buy "full replacement insurance coverage?" I know that sounds like an obtuse question, but it's not. It's hard to make your case we need huge surpluses for a "major catastrophe" when we are paying up for insurance to replace everything from the ground up?
By the way, still looking for your answer regarding the RCSC's negligence and subsequent liability should one of the Vintage Car club members drop dead next summer when the documented and recorded temperatures reach unsafe levels in their building? Seems to me, having been involved with reported safety issues and they are ignored, the liability to an employer is off the charts damaging.
Bill, the car club are whiners and bullies. This goes back to the exchange some years ago (about 2014) when John Bremer did his Moses act that he wanted to see the club have space before he dies. Oh brother! RCSC humored them and gave them I believe the old skilled trades building by Lakeview. The when the Grand property was purchased they saw their deliverance and somehow the funds became available for this Taj Mahal.The pitch from day one was always for them to restored their boy toys, but somehow it turned into also trucks. But then they brought up rec vehicles which required a monster door. The question is how far along in the process before they told management they needed a bigger door? As for liability , tort school time. Rec centers could argue and I believe successfully contributory negligence, that is the descendent knew that the conditions in the garage was extremely hot in an Arizona summer consequently contributing to his demise. Also the air conditioning would cost a fortune no matter how many time this monster door is opened. Also the car club doesn’t have a legal employer employee relationship. John Bremer is a serious golfing buddy of Dan Schroeder when he was on the Board.
You are correct as I did leave the meeting early consequently missing whatever you had to say. I had a prior appointment that was of extreme importance to me. I also have a copy of the budget presentation so I can review any time in the comfort of my home.
You want a definition of full replace cost, read your homeowner policy if you have this coverage. It is defined in the policy. I also have never said I was an expert in insurance. I certainly knew more than the collection of dweebs when I was first on the Board with you.
As for Capital Reserve, I suggest you go talk to your good bud John Fast as he can explain it to you. You listen to him more than me since you continue to blow me off when I want to explain statements to you. You shill for him enough you should have a good bromance going.
Hi, all!
My grandmother, a wise woman in my eyes, always said everyone should be a waitress/waiter and store clerk sometime in their life. I have been both and being a waitress is much harder. Talk about multitasking! One has to keep track of orders, changes, special requests, drinks, and get everything on the bill. Plus the food must be served at the right temperature and to all those seated at the same table at the same time. Not just for one table, but multiple ones. Plus it's physically exhausting, being on your feet the entire time and running around delivering the orders. A waiter/waitress has to put up with a lot of obnoxious and rude people. And then there are the cheap ones that don't believe in tipping! A person develops many skills being a waitress/waiter. After being one, I am much more complimentary and respectful to those who serve others in restaurants.
Dave, The Treasurer for RCSC has more responsibility than signing checks.
SECTION 6: TREASURER The Treasurer shall ensure that financial records and cash/investment handling procedures are audited after the close of each fiscal year by a Certified Public Accountant, as selected by the Board. The Treasurer shall make certain that annual income tax returns and other required filings have been filed as required. The Treasurer shall require safeguards to protect assets. Any indebtedness issued in the name of the Corporation shall be signed by the Treasurer or other Board Officer after such indebtedness is approved by a majority vote of the Board (5).
The above is copied and pasted directly from the RCSC Bylaws currently in place. Remember those?
Janet Curry
Thanks for posting that cut from the bylaws Janet. When Dave said that about the treasurer i knew the bylaws were far more detailed than signing checks but it's pointless to argue with him or try and point out his errors. He's simply always right.
Dave...all i can say is WOW! You make Don Rickles look like Mr Charming. By the way, John Bremer is a seriously nice guy.
Janet, while I agree the duties you posted are in the by laws. During my stint as treasurer as treasurer, I signed checks on a weekly basis for operational payments. I never signed tax forms or any other forms of that nature. Those were handled by the Comptroller and GM. The first year I was on the Board only officers could be on the investment commission. Unfortunately none of these people knew anything about investments and Jan asked me to sit in as only she and myself understood what our advisors were saying. Later the commission consisted of a treasurer who understood investments ( Mike Kennedy and myself) along with Jan. I did review with Jan our internal procedures and was quite satisfied with the system. As far as I know both Mike and myself spoke with the accountants annually while they conducted the audit and there is a note in the statement that no deficiencies were found. As for CPAs, the GM would retain them as both Mike and myself were only familiar with the big firms which would cost a small fortune for the same thing. Since we have no debt and I cannot since I have lived here has the RCSC entered into a debt obligation.
While I respect your past experiences with school boards and non profits, the RCSC is totally different.
Bill, while John Bremer may be a very nice guy, he did not like Stella and myself exposing a lot of weaknesses in our audit of the car club. Consequently he moaned to his good golfing buddy on the Board who nothing about auditing and got us relieved as auditors. That’s right Bill, we got fired because we were too good at our job. A nice person indeed. You never disputed my summation on the club.
Dave continuing to minimize others nonprofit experience is beneath you - or should be. There are best practices that any auditing firm looks for, as well as the IRS, Treasury, the AG, and state laws. Any time you care to look, take some time to review the responsibilities of a Finance, Budget and audit committees of tax exempt organization outlined on the Council of Non Profits website. They have 25,000 members across the country. Yes. A c4 is a tad different, because it is an association, serving a community, but please stop. Checks and balances are required and the Board still has a fiduciary responsibility and management has a responsibility to provide all information and continue to help EDUCATE all board members about all aspects of the financial operations of the Board. That's why ongoing board trading is so freaking important. Not every board member comes with every necessary talent. Communication and education.
Why would i dispute stupid statements regarding a club and its 250 members Dave? The wow was intended to showcase my feelings regarding your callous and unkind words about a club in this community.
What's even more disconcerting (not really) are your comments about the treasurer's job as defined in the bylaws. I would have thought/expected you to propose language in the rewrite of the bylaws to make them read/say what the actual job is.Sadly not the case.
Dave..I hope you weren't just blindly signing checks without proper "controls." Things like approved POs and Invoices signed by whomever in management is authorized to do so. Or some type type of approval mechanism for approving/authorizing expenditures. I know "stuff" is approved in the budget process, but every organization where a board and finance committee is involved has a policy/procedure for making sure that somebody with proper authority has approved those expenses
Maybe it's the comptroller. Don't know. It's a big operation. You seem to have an inside track, but with the Finance Committee meeting so infrequently and the Board only accepting the monthly financial reports, does anybody outside of management ever see the actual breakdown of expenditures by project? I know - it sounds like micromanagement, but when we're spending millions on projects, it just seems prudent - from the perspective of a former CEO.
Bill, we did expand the duties of all officers in new bylaw, but those were defeated and now you are back where you began a year ago. Well played. So there is an over/under line on club membership before you become involved in a discussion? Facts are not biased.
Linda, all checks I signed were also signed by the GM and supporting paperwork was attached. The checks were prepared by the comptroller once the supporting paper Alta reviewed before issuing.
There is a monthly work on hand schedule which shows monthly progress on projects from a financial standpoint. An adept person could use this information plus another schedule to change the RCSC statement from accrual to percentage of completion.
This from one nasty ass detail oriented surety bond underwriter. I wasn’t hired for my sparkling personality when it came to a five co-surety $780M road reconstruction project or that $250M Bankers Blanket Bond with accompanying P&C.
Proved my chops yet to the semi informed?
Appreciate process response about "controls" on check signing. I would expect that's the case but everything is so cryptic. But once again, you just had to end a reply with a snarky, condescending remark to put down those you see as "uninformed," that just haven't been around as many years as you, or as "close to the centers of power as you," or just haven't had jobs quite as impressive as yours. Yes, you can stop "serving up your chops" each time you respond.
I was a waiter many years ago in college. It was the hardest job I ever had and it was difficult to remember who ordered what when juggling sometimes 10 tables at once.
Jean is good at cooperating with people and has patience. She will take advice and will learn. I did not vote for her this time, but I have no qualms voting for someone without experience. I do believe when push comes to shove she will do what is right for all of Sun City.
I was truly alarmed after watching the planning meeting. Has no one offered to help the finance chair to learn the job? She needs education. Again, this can be learned if one is willing to learn and the help is there.
The reserves need to be built up. This is just common sense. I am alarmed that they are as low as they are.
PASS THE DAMN BUDGET AND GIVE THE GM WHAT HE NEEDS ALREADY. JCA.
Replacement Cost Coverage does NOT mean if there's a loss that someone waves a magic wand and poof! everything is brand new again. Someone needs to demonstrate how a claim for a COVERED loss is reimbursed.
And the key word is COVERED.
And if you think the insurance company won't drag it's feet foe many months or years to deny paying a claim for even a COVERED loss, I have a coupla bridges for sale.
The VVSC works exclusively on their member's classic vehicles. They do NOT work on outside vehicles, even as a favor.
I have a friend who needed body work on her car but couldn't afford it, so I went down to ask if they could help. No could do.
Everyone that I have come in contact with at this club (and the SCW club as well), have been friendly and helpful. Jon Braemer is a nice guy.
Never had to audit him though, lol.
Oh, one more thing.
The club restores any vintage vehicles. Many members also own motorcycles and RVs, yes. I think that's why they chose the word vehicle instead of car for their name in 2015.
OK Anon, how many Winnebagoes from the 1970’s have they been restoring? How many airstreams from the 1940’s &1950’s have/are they restoring? That 16’ door was mage for the monster RVs that are on the road now.
Idk. I'm not a member of the club.
I have only been inside the new place once for about 10 minutes. It is well organized, no tripping hazards, no oil spots, and immaculate. I wish they would come over and organize my garage.
I could care less if they're making doilies and playing parchese all day. As long as they are being safe and risk and liability are minimized as much as possible, I'm happy.
My days in Sun City are numbered. I just want to be happy until it's time to go.
Hang in there, Dude. Go have some fun.
So you don’t know the answers to my questions? So apparently I am as I never asked about dollies, rags, oil spills or how clean it is. The thrust of the question is did they change their minds on the type of door after construction began or was completed. The are asking the RCSC to spend approximately $1Mil on an air conditioning system and accompanying increased electric bills because they changed horses in the middle of the stream. I think membership has a right to know this as Bill would say.
The door was supposed to be 16 feet in the origin al design, there was supposed to be air conditioning in the original design along with a mezzanine and an oil wash station out back. The building was unique in the members had an overly large hand in what it would actually be (that's a good thing). According to those who helped design the building, changes were made after the plans left their hands. Some have suggested an over zealous RCSC employee scratched those items to cut costs.
As far as air conditioning, large plastic strips can be fixed to the door frames, much like you would find in freezers used in high traffic access points to control temperatures. Far better than members dropping over dead from heat exhaustion and a heart attack. I guess on the happy note, you are pretty certain the RCSC won't be held liable for failing to provide a safe working environment.
To be honest, I was shocked when I recently found out that they didn't have a/c. People's lives are more important than $.
It needs to be fixed, so let's fix it. And in the future, now there are project manager(s) in place to hopefully assure than this doesn't happen again.
Idk = "I don't know" in referencence to your questions Cdp.
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