Member/Board Exchange Recap - Part Two
I love words, and I hate to sound like I am becoming jaundiced. Truth is, I kind of am. Although, the meaning when I looked it up said this: bitterness, resentment, or envy. Honestly, the closest may be resentment. I resent being lied to and resent being treated like I don't understand what is going on.
At yesterday's Member/Board meeting, we were treated to an interesting exchange.
The board president invited a former RCSC board member, who is now on the Election Committee, to the front of the stage to read us the rules regarding the voting process for the annual membership meeting.The Election Committee also has Membership Meeting Responsibilities
I received an email yesterday and was asked why they (the Election Committee) were even involved? Oddly enough, the bylaws call for that. Section 5 says this:
SECTION 5: VOTING PROCEDURES AT MEMBERSHIP MEETINGS
1. Voting shall be by ballot of Members in good standing present at any meeting of the Members. The following procedures shall apply for ballot voting:
1. Voting shall proceed under supervision of the Election Committee.
2. At least two (2) members of the Election Committee shall be in attendance at all times during voting and they, along with their assigns, shall issue all official ballots, and witness the casting of the ballots.
3. Ballot boxes shall remain sealed until all votes are cast. Votes shall be tabulated in the presence of at least three (3) members of the Election Committee. Any Member may be present as an observer at the tabulation of the votes. Upon completion of the tabulation of ballots, the results shall be certified by the Election Committee Chair to the Board and posted on the RCSC website (suncityaz.org) and/or in RCSC Facilities.
Committee Decision Making and Direction without the Committee
So technically it was only right to go to the Election Committee
to work out the details. The rub came shortly after reading the
"rules," Tom Marone stepped to the microphone and asked a simple
question: "When did the Election Committee make these decisions?" It
was a good question because as a longtime member of the committee, he had
attended every meeting and never heard any discussion regarding this matter, huh?
To the president's credit, she freely admitted
those rules were decided by the general manager and her. At least they
didn't try and spin the answer. Sad when kudos go out for being honest eh?
I was more troubled by a couple of things; the committee
played no role in setting the rules but more importantly, the rumor is
the member who read those rules will ultimately be a candidate for this year’s
election. I truly hope I am wrong.
Of greater concern is the continuing and
diminishing role committees fill. At one point in time, committees were the
lifeblood of the organization, hardly the case these days.
Bill Pearson – Advisory Panel Sun City Advocates
Please read also, Failed Process, or Is It? (A discussion on member's rights)
12 comments:
Kinda makes you wonder why we even have committees when such important things like voting procedures are decided by only two people, one of which I might add is not even an RCSC Member but simply and employee! (no disrespect intended)
It would have been proper for the Chair to at least try to coordinate a meeting of the Election Committee members who are still here during the Summer months. I bet more than just the 2 people who made all the decisions would have shown up! I know I would have.
I also think it's important to note that the 14 point procedure they came up with is in violation of the current Bylaws. Standing and Counting votes at a Membership meeting is not allowed because the Bylaws say, as stated above, "Voting shall be by ballot of Members in good standing present at any meeting of the Members. The following procedures shall apply for ballot voting." This is not a rule that can be suspended. So it must either be eliminated, or amended in such a manner that provides for its own suspension. Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself! (RONR 12th Ed. 45:20)
I could have and would have told them that if I were invited. In fact, I sent an e-mail to every member of the Board back on Aug. 16th about that very point but never even received a "thank you for your comment" reply!
These are things that need to be fixed and that can only be done when Members come first and that will only be accomplished when we elect the proper people to the Board!
Tom, I was shocked as much as you when the voting procedures were read, but Judgment Day is coming and that right soon. I still hate proxies but that is a discussion for another day and yes I know they are in the Articles of Incorporation. Does this mean I can stay on the By-laws committee?
Sorry this new format threw me off balance.. Christine de Pizan
Dave, once I see the revised Bylaws I'll make my judgment! Lol!
I know you love Robert's Rules but it also provides the procedure to approve a revised set of Bylaws, and the Committee should suggest that method to the Board when it makes its report. It's called "Consideration by Paragraph or Seriatim" and you can find it in section 28:6 of RONR.
The Board should call a Special Membership Meeting to specifically go thru the Bylaws one at a time. This will probably require more than just one meeting but if the Board thinks they're going to get away with just allowing the Members a 3 minute comment I think they're mistaken.
Dale said something about commenting on them at the Planning Meeting after the next Board Meeting but Members aren't allowed to comment at Planning Meetings!?!?!
As far as proxies goes, I don't necessarily disagree with you and YES, they are authorized in the Articles of Incorporation but it's not out of the question to amend the Articles as difficult as it may be.
Here's a thought, eliminate the proxy votes and reduce the size of the quorum! It makes counting the votes much easier and the Members that do show up are more than likely Members who are truly concerned and engaged in the dealings of the RCSC. Most people who authorize you their proxy haven't got a clue of what's going on nor do they care.
I do like your last paragraph/idea, Tom. But one thing I'm concerned about is people who do care but are unable to attend (like out-of-town or house-ridden). I think they have a right to "cast" a vote. How about limiting the number of proxies any person can gather? I read that somewhere.
Good points jeb. I am by any means endorsing the elimination of proxies, but only suggest that it's an option.
Let's just hope that when the revised Bylaws come out there will be a more definitive process for voting, for counting votes and counting the proxies affiliated with a secret ballot!
Seems to me that when ALL votes are mandated to be by a secret ballot, it just makes every vote a very long and dragged out process that's not necessary. Secret ballot votes should be limited and reserved for things such as elections or disciplinary actions. You shouldn't need a ballot vote to call for a simple recess or approval of an agenda!
Tom, my problem with proxies is that I believe the proxies used in December were a general proxy which can be used not only for quorum purposes but also for votes during the meeting. In the latter instance the holder of the proxy might vote against the signatory’s best interest
(What’s the Matter With Kansas by Thomas Frank). Once that has been done the signatory has no remedy against the holder unless there is something in Robert’s.
I still do not know when the by-laws will be released to the members. The planning meeting on the 29th was also a surprise to me and I am unsure my role will be in this meeting, session, whatever you call it. Should be a lot of giggles and snorts.
As an aside, I tried the tip you showed me on highlighting the link, it did not work. One word would be highlighted by not the others. I also tried a ‘sweep’ right to left and it did not work. I still believe you are wasting your time with 990s as Bill wants to see ledgers, worksheets, whatever. The audit statements provide everything he was requesting and I was willing to show him but his continued ranting at Chris Lynum evidently took presidence, so I left as I had other things to do. Personally, I am tired of trying to prove my point with actual numbers, so I am moving on from this. I will continue to call out the misinformed, the obtuse, the clueless, etc. regarding the true bottom line on golf net of depreciation.
Deus illud vult.
Dave, Robert's Rules doesn't endorse the use of proxies. Robert's Rules believes in "One Person, One Vote" and that's because they define a "meeting" as a single official gathering of its voting members in one room.
As you may or may not know, the RCSC has 2 Proxy forms; one form is a general proxy form and gives the Holder the ability to vote on everything, and the second form only allows the Holder to vote on the specific motions specified on the proxy form.
How the RCSC is going to determine who holds which type of proxy and which ones can be used on any particular motion makes my head spin, especially if they don't remove the Bylaw that mandates ALL votes taken at any meeting of the Members SHALL be by ballot! Don't forget, the main purpose of voting by ballot is to keep how a Member voted a secret!
Bring your I-Pad to next meeting and I'll see if I can help you out or if your I-Pad is, in fact, that out dated!
The dude abides.
This is the exact thing that lead to my termination from my position of Chartered Club Supervisor. There was a recommedation from the COC Committee that was delivered by Sue Wilson at the Board Meeting at the end of April. Ms. Wilson proceded to explain the operational process which had never been discussed at any committee meeting. She had passed her thoughts by a senior manager who didn't see any issues with her thoughts. Again, the Board is only supposed to put the amendment out there and not get involved with day-to-day operations. When I questioned why this happened without the input of the staff that were involved in day-to-day operations, I was deemed insubordinate. Lesson learned for the rest of the staff that are left to be followers instead of leaders.
FYI, unknown statement above is from Myrna DeBruyne
Let's just be really blunt and here and lay it out for members to try and get their head around. After years of having no one challenge or question what is happening, both the management and the officers resent anyone speaking out. Doesn't matter if it is employees or other board members.
The organization has become an entity within itself. One that doesn't give two shits what the members think and really doesn't want the employees to do anything beyond what they are told. Stifling opinions and ideas is counter-productive and an absolute reversal on the tenets Sun City was founded under.
Myrna was doing a great job with club oversight. Oops, she dared have an opinion and expressed it. For years, loyalty was the measuring stick used to determine an employee's value. I had hoped when the old gm retired it would change. It did, it got worse. Who'd a thunk it?
Worse than all that, we now know that several non-officers of the board are being treated with total disdain. The majority simply looks down their nose at the minority. Throw in the total disregard for the membership and it's time for a change.
This coming election has the potential to be the turning point. We'll see eh?
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